Warren Say Joe Calzaghe Should Have Fought Pavlik

[Mr. Philadel]

Warren makes a good point. Joe would have easily outboxed Pavlik, but in fighting Jones there is a possibility of losing a close decision. I'm worried that the New York area judges may be a factor in the outcome of this fight...

see there you go worrying about the wrong thing Mr. Tunney, Roy Jones Jr. should be your one and only worry. When was the last time the judges scored a fight against Joe? If judges were out to get Joe, the fight with B-Hop would've been a more than perfect time to get him.......Real Talk!

[ßringer]

You raise a good point there, it would have been preferable he left Warren then. But then I doubt it was that easy to pull out of a contract then with Warren. He's had trouble getting out of his last fight under Warren which was just verbal, so clearly had he have left earlier it'd be way more tricky.

Joe has a point, Manfredo was a star hence his reason for fighting him, publicity in the US, he didn't really think he was a great fighter he was hyping the fight, and if you asked him now would admit that.

I'm not sure a win over Pavlik does do more, Pavlik's already out of the p4p list and way less talked about and highly regarded as he was before, for that schooling. People would just say he was a lighter, over rated guy like Lacy. It's a no win situation so he's always going to have critics.

A verbal contract is non-binding, if Joe wanted to leave, he could've left. But he lingered with Warren for some odd reason, perhaps out of a distorted sense of loyalty, who knows?

And Manfredo was no "star", not in the States, not anywhere. Some people watched the show he was on, but that's about as far as it goes. Bika was an even worse choice because he hadn't even been on "The Contender" at that point.

And I would've respected Joe a bit more if he did to Kelly what Bernard did. Kelly Pavlik, as one dimensional as he is, is a better win than Jeff Lacy, Sakio Bika, and Peter Manfredo put together IMO.

[Ben_London]

I think that Warren held back Hatton and Calzaghe for years and it took him forever to get them the big fights that they wanted.

[Kris Silver]

A verbal contract is non-binding, if Joe wanted to leave, he could've left. But he lingered with Warren for some odd reason, perhaps out of a distorted sense of loyalty, who knows?

You mis understood, the current law suite is over Calzaghes fight after Hopkins only being verbal. Pretty much all those before were not just verbal AFAIK. But I could be wrong. So, it would have been way harder to leave him before, and quite possibly cost him more in the long run. I know Warrens no angel he kept Calzaghe earning, got some ok fights, and whose really to say Joe coulda landed significant bigger fights after Lacy? I think it's easy to be idealistic, look at how many opponents Pavlik was looking at with Bob Arum, all of them didn't work out, was all that Arums fault?

And Manfredo was no "star", not in the States, not anywhere. Some people watched the show he was on, but that's about as far as it goes. Bika was an even worse choice because he hadn't even been on "The Contender" at that point.

Perhaps our main thing here is the interpretation of star. Manfredo was all over US television and that's enough, it was the main ingredient Calzaghe is missing and recognised needed work. Late I know but he was right. As for Bika he's a top 10 SMW right now and I'm sure but may have been then too, he's not a great but not a bad win.

And I would've respected Joe a bit more if he did to Kelly what Bernard did. Kelly Pavlik, as one dimensional as he is, is a better win than Jeff Lacy, Sakio Bika, and Peter Manfredo put together IMO.

Why does Joe have to keep beating the next big things in America? He's beaten more Americans than anyone else in his career, and beat them all. I don't blame him for getting fed-up with it, especially how suddenly their over hyped and not such great wins the second they lose, especially to him a foreigner. He can't win either way.

[ßringer]

You mis understood, the current law suite is over Calzaghes fight after Hopkins only being verbal. Pretty much all those before were not just verbal AFAIK. But I could be wrong. So, it would have been way harder to leave him before, and quite possibly cost him more in the long run.

If I were Joe I would've still tried to get out of the contract. Staying in it for your financial status is fine, but it does nothing for your legacy.

I know Warrens no angel he kept Calzaghe earning, got some ok fights, and whose really to say Joe coulda landed significant bigger fights after Lacy? I think it's easy to be idealistic, look at how many opponents Pavlik was looking at with Bob Arum, all of them didn't work out, was all that Arums fault?

I can't say with certainty that Joe would've had opponets lining up outsid ehis door to fight him, but he became a well known guy after the Lacy win. Surely somebody at either SMW, or LHW, would've been willing to fight him, and to me that's a step in the right direction. And certainly better than Manfredo and Bika.

Perhaps our main thing here is the interpretation of star. Manfredo was all over US television and that's enough

Then by those standards, Joe should be fighting Britney Spears next instead of Roy Jones. Or on a boxing level, George Foreman (He's got his own TV show over here now).

Late I know but he was right. As for Bika he's a top 10 SMW right now and I'm sure but may have been then too, he's not a great but not a bad win.

Yeah, Bika is a top 10 SMW right now. But look at the division, it's as weak as it was during Joe's reign, and it's not getting any better. Jermain Taylor and Jeff Lacy are in the rankings, and Taylor hasn't even has a SMW fight yet, and Lacy damn near lost to that guy on ESPN not long ago. (Forget his name)

Why does Joe have to keep beating the next big things in America? He's beaten more Americans than anyone else in his career, and beat them all. I don't blame him for getting fed-up with it, especially how suddenly their over hyped and not such great wins the second they lose, especially to him a foreigner. He can't win either way.

You're making an issue out of a non issue. It's not that Joe "has to keep beating the next big things in America", Nationality has nothing to do with this, it's legitimacy. If he would've fought and beat Kelly, all the outpouring you see of support for Hopkins would've been for Joe instead.

We wouldn't be cementing his status as an ATG, but even I would be in line to say that Joe did great and that he schooled Kelly, which is a big step in the right direction: Facing the tough challenges.

Certainly Pavlik is not a masterful technician, by any stretch of the term. But was a young, undefeated, powerful Champion who had a hell of a fanbase, and at 43 years of age, and doing to him what he did, Bernard deserves what he's getting for his effort.

[Chunk..]

If Joe Calzaghe was earning enough, then why didn't Ricky Hatton and Naseem Hamed stick with Frank Warren then?

His biggest payday is coming with Frank Warren not being his promoter. Go figure!

[Ryn0]

TBH any way you cut it Joe can't win. If he faced Pavlik, he faced a overrated power puncher and the Hopkins win will be seen as a W over a spent former ATG, now he faces Jones he is facing a past it ATG but faced a still great fighter in Hopkins.

[egodfather]

Joke Calslappy

Joe Calzaghe really is a joke. He ducked Pavlik to fight Roy Jones because Pavlik looked devastating against Taylor, Miranda and Calzaghe's mate, Lockett. The majority of fans and the press were thinking Pavlik would destroy Hopkins and maybe even stop him so all of this horse-**** that Joe made the right decision for a "money fight" with Roy is bull-****ing-****. The tickets for their fight went on sale in August and they still haven't sold out. Also, Roy gets 50%! He must think he has won the lottery! Who the **** is gonna buy PPV to watch Joe beat up an old Roy Jones? I don't anyone who will and I have about 30 die-hard boxing fans - nobody cares about this fight. The fact Joe made his HBO debut against Sakio Bika is a telling fact. He hasn't had a PPV fight in 45 fights, he fought 44 of his fights in Europe and he has a split decision over one pound for pound fighter in 45 bouts. Joe could've moved to 175 five years ago and fought Roy - he didn't because anyone with a brain knows that Roy would have humiliated him. Joe, retire and disappear.

[hammerhiem]

I get the feeling Joe could beat Jesus and still not get credit for it.

"he's 2000 years old! he's a spent force"

He hasn't had a PPV fight in 45 fights, he fought 44 of his fights in Europe and he has a split decision over one pound for pound fighter in 45 bouts.

thats because they don't do PPV in Britain, there no market for it, and the reason he's only fought 1 P4P is because there has never been another P4P in his division.

[egodfather]

Stop talking horse-****. Sky do PPV in Britain and there is a market for it - refer to the Mayweather v Hatton fight. Well if his division was piss-poor and he could make 175 for the last 10 years, why didn't he move up to seal the big fights? Are you telling me nobody would've Calzaghe in America like when Hatton came to America for a couple fights with Collazo, Urango and then the big one? Joe chose to stay at the piss-poor super-middle division and the fact that Sven Ottke was around the corner making 21 defenses just shows it's the weakest division in boxing history. Joe didn't have any ambition or pride, he said he didn't "need" America.