is Calzaghe a better fighter than B Hop or not

[roujinziro]

There's no money in Hopkins fighting Kessler so it'll never happen. I think BHop has earned the right to finish off his with a "senior tour" fight against RJJ should he beat JC. But getting back to the original question. I had BHop winning their fight by a point. Plus comparing their resumes, sure they had 20+ defenses in their respective divisions, but Hopkins fought the better oposition. Sure Kessler is a complete fighter, but Lacy is even more flawed and 1-D than Pavlik. Hopkins losing to JC was a wakeup call for him, realizing that he couldn't just mail-in a performance and win.

[ßringer]

Kessler is in roughly he same boat as Lacy was after getting beaten so badly by Calzaghe, though not to the extent, certainly. Whether he'll ever amount to ****, I can't say. I'd like to think he will, but I'm not going to hold my breath. Maybe he'll step up soon, but right now, you're right...he hasn't done ****.

As for whether he deserves a shot at Hopkins...no, in my opinion he doesn't, but there are a couple of reasons this would be a good idea. Foremost is that he's sort of a Calzaghe measuring stick. If HOpkins can do as bad or worse to him as Calzaghe, then there's a good chance that Calzaghe will rematch HOpkins, in the event Joe beats RJJ. Even if he doesn't, it'll still make Calzaghe look like a dip****, which is, I think, Bernard's most fervent hope. Secondly...why does he need to "deserve" a shot at Hopkins? I can't count the number of underserving *******s that have been given title shots, much less a fight with an older, highly regarded boxer just coming off a great win. Not sure he needs to deserve it, just that both guys need to want it to happen. I'm sure it won't, but it'd be a decent fight, I think, and one Bernard could look fantastic in, if he comes into the ring with the same conditioning and mentality he did against Pavlik.

You make some good points. As for the bolded, that is true, but I wouldn't want to see Hopkins use up one of the last fights he has left in him on Kesslerbot 3000. I'd be for it if it'd get him a Calzaghe rematch, but Joe him self said he's done after November 8th and he's walking away. Said a rematch with Hopkins will never happen.

So to further cement his legacy, Hopkins needs to chase Roy some more, or drop to 147lbs and get Mayweather out of retirement. The first option being most likely of course.

[DonFlamenco]

Bernard Hopkins

[FatNJerseykid]

Well...he won, so technically speaking, you pretty much have to consider him the "better" fighter, at least on that night. There are alot of things Hopkins is good at, but beating Calzaghe wasn't one of them. It was fairly obvious that Hopkins knew if he engaged Calzaghe he wouldn't win, which is why he chose the method he did, and it was probably his best chance at beating someone with Joe's work rate and handspeed...it just didn't work as well as he'd hoped. If HOpkins had hopened up more so he could land more shots, he'd have caught more as well, and I think it would've been a wider decision without any question.

Can we replace that part with "Slap rate and Slap Speed"?

[steptwome]

Kessler is in roughly he same boat as Lacy was after getting beaten so badly by Calzaghe, though not to the extent, certainly. Whether he'll ever amount to ****, I can't say. I'd like to think he will, but I'm not going to hold my breath. Maybe he'll step up soon, but right now, you're right...he hasn't done ****.

As for whether he deserves a shot at Hopkins...no, in my opinion he doesn't, but there are a couple of reasons this would be a good idea. Foremost is that he's sort of a Calzaghe measuring stick. If HOpkins can do as bad or worse to him as Calzaghe, then there's a good chance that Calzaghe will rematch HOpkins, in the event Joe beats RJJ. Even if he doesn't, it'll still make Calzaghe look like a dip****, which is, I think, Bernard's most fervent hope. Secondly...why does he need to "deserve" a shot at Hopkins? I can't count the number of underserving *******s that have been given title shots, much less a fight with an older, highly regarded boxer just coming off a great win. Not sure he needs to deserve it, just that both guys need to want it to happen. I'm sure it won't, but it'd be a decent fight, I think, and one Bernard could look fantastic in, if he comes into the ring with the same conditioning and mentality he did against Pavlik.

The only thing that is weighted against this fight is the fact that it would be a relatively low interest fight. The "measuring stick" doesn't have much of a
following to draw Hopkins into a fight.

[Chunk..]

Even though Joe Calzaghe beat Bernard Hopkins, B-Hop will still be seen as the better legend because 1) if this fight happened years ago, there would be no question as to who would win, and 2) Hopkins has fought the MUCH better opposition throughout his career. Lets take a look at both fighters' most notable opponents and you'll see that Hopkins, no matter what happens in their fight, will always be seen as the better legend. After beating Chris Eubank for the title, the majority of Calzaghe's victories have come against fighters that most fans have never heard of. Only recently has Calzaghe started to step up and fight the best out there (Kessler, Lacy).

Bernard Hopkins on the other hand has a MUCH more credible title run than Calzaghe does and he has faced the much better opposition throughout his career. Hopkins has a few losses, but that's because he didn't fight a whole bunch of bums for the majority of his career like Calzaghe did. I'll tell you this much: if Calzaghe had crossed the pond when he first won his title, he would not still have it today and if he faced Bernard a few years back, he would have lost easily. Here are some of the names on Hopkins list: John David Jackson, Glen Johnson (the only fighter to ever stop Glen), Antwun Echols twice (back then, Echols was a force), William Joppy (in his prime), Howard Eastman (in his prime), Keith Holmes, Felix Trinidad, Oscar De La Hoya, Antonio Tarver, and Winky Wright. He also lost to a prime Roy Jones, Jr. and Jermain Taylor. Any way you slice it, Hopkins' credetials outdo Calzaghe's credentials any day of the week.

The only notable guys that Calzaghe has beaten except for Eubank that are worth mentioning, he has fought recently. Hopkins beat way more name guys than him and he beat guys that actually deserved a shot at the title. Yes, Hopkins has fought some nobodies (what great champion hasn't?) but it is nothing compared to the bums of Calzaghe's record.

[Stickman]

You make some good points. As for the bolded, that is true, but I wouldn't want to see Hopkins use up one of the last fights he has left in him on Kesslerbot 3000. I'd be for it if it'd get him a Calzaghe rematch, but Joe him self said he's done after November 8th and he's walking away. Said a rematch with Hopkins will never happen.

So to further cement his legacy, Hopkins needs to chase Roy some more, or drop to 147lbs and get Mayweather out of retirement. The first option being most likely of course.

I think you're right about Joe never agreeing to rematch Hopkins. Doesn't seem the type to back off a stand like that.

My concern about Hopkins chasing Roy, is that I don't know if Roy will be there to chase after Calzaghe. I think you're expecting Roy to win, but I'm not so sure. I called Hopkins/Pavlik wrong, but all in all, I'm usually right, and I'm a bit more comfortable with this pick than I was with the Pavlik pick, which relied ONLY on HOpkins not being conditioned well enough to go 12 rounds, gassing, and getting TKO'd late. Had that single thought not been planted in my head by the Calzaghe/Hopkins fight, I'd have picked Bernard's fight with Hopkins to play out exactly as it did. In fact I did predict Hopkins to take the first half by shutout.

Anyway, again....I don't think Roy can win this without an early KO, and I believe Joe's beard is just too tough, and he's in too good of shape. If Roy can catch him with a couple of quick shots and hurt him without putting him on his shorts, then throw some fast combinations while he's stunned that land and look great, he might get the ref to stop it. If he actually knocks Joe down, I think his chance will be blown....Calzaghe recovers almost instantly (because his conditioning is so good), and there's little chance of hurting him bad enough to get a 10 count. And I know that Roy can't go 12 rounds at Calzaghe's pace, and he's not going to be able to throw/grab like Hopkins did, so he'll either lay back and counter, hoping to get the judges to see it for him, or try for the early KO, burn more gas than he has in his tank and end up TKO'd late.

[Duke McKenzie_]

acheivment wise...hell no.how many people do you recongnize on joes resume???

Because the likes of Robert Allen and Howard Eastman were stellar comp, right?

Also, it's always funny that Joe's reasonable-if-not-outstanding comp is marginalised by people who "don't recognise" them. Is that their fault, or your lack of knowledge?

[Allucard]

Well...he won, so technically speaking, you pretty much have to consider him the "better" fighter, at least on that night. There are alot of things Hopkins is good at, but beating Calzaghe wasn't one of them. It was fairly obvious that Hopkins knew if he engaged Calzaghe he wouldn't win, which is why he chose the method he did, and it was probably his best chance at beating someone with Joe's work rate and handspeed...it just didn't work as well as he'd hoped. If HOpkins had hopened up more so he could land more shots, he'd have caught more as well, and I think it would've been a wider decision without any question.

Yeah, I know, Hopkins gave Pavlik a boxing lesson, but on top of being so stylistically different, Calzaghe would've done about the same thing to Pavlik that Hopkins did...has already, in fact...and yeah, I also know that none of the Zaggs haters here like to hear the name "Kessler", but Kessler is a much more complete technical boxer than Pavlik, and was handled by Calzaghe in about the same manner, though I have to say that I did actually give Kessler a couple of rounds, but again...he's more complete, technically, than Pavlik, so that's not so surprising. If you guys want to see how much better Kessler is than Pavlik, petition for a Kessler/Hopkins matchup in January.

I think that if Hopkins were able to keep up with Calzaghe's work rate, it'd be a great fight, and I just don't know how it'd go, honestly. It wouldn't be a blowout either way, I don't believe, but I'm also not convinced it would go either way for certain. I could flip a coin and take a guess, but why bother.

Your a Calzaghe fan, nohing wrong with that but the best you can give him is being better than Hopkins in activity, in 2008! Technically he's not better, he's just allot more active and not too bad footwork. Then again, i'm comparing Joe of 2008 to Bernard of 2008. Prime for prime, dude, it's not even close really.

[El Dominicano]

B-Hop right now

B-Hop > Kessler, Chad

B-Hop should just keeping putting namez in his resume...hez at a win win situation