Mikkel Kessler-Daniloa Haussler Moved To Oldenburg

[Kris Silver]

It's sometimes all to easy to throw around the word duck and often not really mean it. Sometimes I say it just playing devils advocate, as in if that's your classification of it then this this and this guy is.

On Kessler, I think there is a slight case for Pavlik ducking him, purely because Kessler called him out and to my knowledge neither Pavlik or his team has even responded. This is the guy whom is #1 (minus Calzaghe) at SMW, one division above Pavlik, and he has a belt. Beating the #1 SMW, getting a belt is a pretty big deal, suddenly your #1 in two weight divisions. Who else can really bring him that other than Calzaghe, NO ONE. And he's not even responded to being called out by Kessler, instead he's fighting even higher than that weight, against a guy whom Calzaghe's also beaten and brings him less.

To me, that is a bit of a duck. Certainly more so than Calzaghe for awhile considering and calling out Pavlik (so clearly not scared and willing to) then just picking his #1 choice in RJJ for his last bout.

[dstew]

I think the notion that Kessler is not on peoples radar until he wins a 'high profile fight' is a little disingenuous. I think the reality is that he is a very large blip on every top fighter from MW to LHW's radar, one marked AVOID!

I am not suggesting that this is an out and out ducking scenario, more as you quite correctly point out, an economic and risk/reward based one. I can understand that no matter how well regarded in boxing circles Kessler may be, fighting him might not bring the money they are looking for, beating him might not bring the credit they are looking for, and losing to him would be disastrous!

However, this may all be true, but this scenario is not really a 'justifiable' one. This type of approach to matchmaking is the business led one, which we fans routinely complain about, and I don't see how anyone can deny that from a 'boxing' perspective Mikkel Kessler has not clearly demonstrated that he belongs at the top table.

No argument from me.

I will say I'm definitely a fan and see things the way fans see them, but do my best to try to see things from the business perspective as well. Helps keep me sane knowing that it's out of our control, no matter how much bitching and moaning we do about the system in place.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

No, he was considered a promising prospect by some. .

False revisionist history. He was touted as the Tyson of the super-middleweights, predicted to destroy Calzaghe and dominate the division for years. And not just by idiots on a forum......but by some of America's most respected boxing writers.

My "lame" argument really isn't even an argument. I wasn't trying to prove/disprove anything other than this: If Kessler keeps fighting weak competition then people should hold him accountable for his padded record and complacency..

Yes people should but he isnt even close to announcing a future opponent. And you cant hold him accountable for this fight as its being forced upon him. Yes maybe he shouldve KOed Miranda instead of Sartisan but I see a lot of people here condoning Taylor avoiding Froch because he needed a tune up, confidence building fight after a defeat. Kessler got that and a belt along the way.

The two variables in this land solely on Kessler's marketability--which is very low and was the same as Calzaghes for most of his career. The biggest paydays come from fighting in America--Kessler hasn't accomplished anything to get the attention necessary to fight the big fights. He was in 39 pro fights before taking on Calzaghe (the worst HBO numbers of all time). His previous fight was against Librado Andrade--a boxer relegated to Wednesday Night Fights in the states. American prospects have faced stiffer competition in 20 fights than Kessler has in 40. He needs to step up and get on with it.

Im sorry but as purely a boxing fan, I find it sad when others who claim to be this way talk like businessmen. Yes i understand theres a business side but I want to see the best fights. Like I said, no Yanks were willing to step up. Didnt Pavlik fight Lockett on HBO? I didnt realise The Rocket had taken off in the states. So please dont kid me on that it lies soley on Kessler's marketability.

Librado Andrade is fighting Bute for a world title, nice spin you put on it there, what a demotion. Kessler hasnt done anything to get a big fight....

Which Yank prospects would these be that have been a double world champion and fought a P4P top 3 fighter?

[dstew]

It's sometimes all to easy to throw around the word duck and often not really mean it. Sometimes I say it just playing devils advocate, as in if that's your classification of it then this this and this guy is.

On Kessler, I think there is a slight case for Pavlik ducking him, purely because Kessler called him out and to my knowledge neither Pavlik or his team has even responded. This is the guy whom is #1 (minus Calzaghe) at SMW, one division above Pavlik, and he has a belt. Beating the #1 SMW, getting a belt is a pretty big deal, suddenly your #1 in two weight divisions. Who else can really bring him that other than Calzaghe, NO ONE. And he's not even responded to being called out by Kessler, instead he's fighting even higher than that weight, against a guy whom Calzaghe's also beaten and brings him less.

To me, that is a bit of a duck. Certainly more so than Calzaghe for awhile considering and calling out Pavlik (so clearly not scared and willing to) then just picking his #1 choice in RJJ for his last bout.

I disagree about Kessler bringing more to the table for Pavlik than Hopkins does. I think Hopkins offers him the bigger payday and just as much if not more notereity, especially domestically.

Also the boxing media is somewhat at fault here too. Even on this thread someone had to post a link to where Kessler called out Pavlik because it's not widely known about, whereas everyone who follows boxing at all knows that Calzaghe has been talking trash about Pavlik every time he's in front of a microphone. Granted Calzaghe has been more vocal than Kessler, but Kessler's comments were barely covered by the media and then quickly forgotten about. But that all goes back to Kessler not being as big a name as Calzaghe, despite their recent fight, so he is not going to get the same kind of attention.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

From what I know about Taylor, he does have some say in who he fights, and after all previous options had been exhausted (he was teased by Mayorga, Trinidad, and RJJ IIRC) he WANTED to finally step into the ring with his old olympic rival Jeff Lacy . Then, along came the offer to fight Carl Froch, who Taylor had probably never heard of, for the WBC belt, and his management advised him that the Lacy fight would bring him more money and a date on his home network, HBO (who didn't want to air Taylor/Froch, even if it was for a belt).

Kudos to Kessler for his honesty about Haussler, but how honest was he when he backed out of the Miranda fight to take what on paper was an easier fight with Sartison for a paper title? His camp finally released a press release blaming the cancellation on Miranda, but that was after failing to pick up the phone for comment when nearly every boxing news outlet around the world was reporting that Kessler was ducking Miranda. When you ignore interview requests in favor of issuing a press release a day or two later, it looks sketchy to say the least.

In the end, at least we know that Taylor is fighting for something, even if it is money. What is Kessler fighting for? A belt that keeps forcing him into mandatories against bums, wasting his time? Neither situation is commendable, but of the two I'd have to say Taylor's career path sounds more reasonable.

Most of your argument is based on the ridiculous premise that Taylor doesnt know who Froch is. Di Bella clearly does and proclaimed on live TV that he knew Froch was the harder fight. Taylor knows that too. Even if hes seen little of Froch, he realises fighting his demoralised Olympic buddy - who almost quit the sport is a safer bet.

Thats pretty much all speculation. You can speculate whether Kessler ducked Miranda all you want........but fact remains, you know that Taylor is flat out avoiding Froch because his team have admitted it. Whether Sartisan was an easier fight or not is again questionable as personally I think Miranda is a bucket of ****e.

What we know is that Taylor will fight for money over the best competition - again, something he has admitted on live TV. Whereas Kessler has called out Pavlik and others showing willingness to fight the best plus shown his unhappiness at having to fight Haussler. Kessler's career intentions sound more credible to me.

[Kris Silver]

I disagree about Kessler bringing more to the table for Pavlik than Hopkins does. I think Hopkins offers him the bigger payday and just as much if not more notereity, especially domestically.

As much as it pains me to say it, your right with the reasons being why many certainly at home will rate it more and more money for them. It's just I don't see those reasons as quite so valuable, and with good reason. If it was a one off and Kessler had been responded to for a fight at some point at least, I could live with Pavlik beating a tough old legend for bigger money for domestic notoriety. But that's not the case. The same goes for my man Calzaghe, if he fought on beyond Roy Jones he'd need to face Pavlik or Dawson or someone.

I'm a fan of the sport that is boxing. I'm a realist, but I shan't subscribe to the excuse of more money and more domestic ratings and reputation gain, stardom too much, especially when your young and there's other more logical tougher fighters out there whom have called you out. A boxer loses some of my respect for that, and a lot of peoples. So you have to factor that in. Boxing is a global, sport, first and foremost.

Also the boxing media is somewhat at fault here too. Even on this thread someone had to post a link to where Kessler called out Pavlik because it's not widely known about, whereas everyone who follows boxing at all knows that Calzaghe has been talking trash about Pavlik every time he's in front of a microphone. Granted Calzaghe has been more vocal than Kessler, but Kessler's comments were barely covered by the media and then quickly forgotten about. But that all goes back to Kessler not being as big a name as Calzaghe, despite their recent fight, so he is not going to get the same kind of attention.

Very true. I posted the article link of Kessler calling out Pavlik, and I'm sure he's called out either Hops/Roy somewhere too. Even I'm a guilty of it because I can't fully remember. But yes, people rant on all day about Calzaghe ducking Pavlik, when Calzaghe showed a clear willingness to fight Pavlik, but he got his #1 choice for his LAST fight. The #1 SMW called out the #1 MW for the fall, and the #1 MW hasn't responded to indicate any real intention of taking it at some point. At the same time he's going above the SMW to fight someone else. That is a terrible state of affairs and far more of a duck.

I wouldn't mind if Calzaghe took as much crap, if people realised and spoke of this, but they don't. And that's without Abraham being factored in even. If Pavlik faced the two guys whom have called him out, Abraham and Kessler, I have no doubt he'd come out with 1 loss. Same can't be said for Calzaghe whom is about to retire.

[dstew]

Most of your argument is based on the ridiculous premise that Taylor doesnt know who Froch is. Di Bella clearly does and proclaimed on live TV that he knew Froch was the harder fight. Taylor knows that too. Even if hes seen little of Froch, he realises fighting his demoralised Olympic buddy - who almost quit the sport is a safer bet.

Thats pretty much all speculation. You can speculate whether Kessler ducked Miranda all you want........but fact remains, you know that Taylor is flat out avoiding Froch because his team have admitted it. Whether Sartisan was an easier fight or not is again questionable as personally I think Miranda is a bucket of ****e.

What we know is that Taylor will fight for money over the best competition - again, something he has admitted on live TV.

The only thing that is NOT speculation is that Taylor is avoiding a smaller paycheck for a fight that would add nothing to his resume.

You just said yourself "that Taylor will fight for money over the best competition," implying that if he were offered as much or more for Froch + the WBC belt as he was for Lacy, he would be fighting Froch for the bigger payday. Because that's what he's motivated by, right?

Regardless of what came out of Dibella's mouth in that interview about Froch being the more dangerous fight, he was also honest about the larger motives behind taking the Lacy fight - MONEY. Which you just acknowledged. Yet you and others have no qualms about implying that Taylor was "afraid" to fight Froch by saying he "avoided" him, "ducked" him, or however you want to phrase it, when it is HIGHLY probable based on Taylor's history that if Froch brought more $$$ than Lacy, we'd be seeing Taylor/Froch.

If you're going to criticize a fighter, at least be consistent with your reasoning.

Whereas Kessler has called out Pavlik and others showing willingness to fight the best plus shown his unhappiness at having to fight Haussler. Kessler's career intentions sound more credible to me.

What's hilarious about this is that you are lauding Kessler for calling out Pavlik and Hopkins while questioning Taylor's credibility... well guess what? Taylor's already fought Pavlik. And Hopkins.

Kessler had a comeback fight in Sartison. Let Taylor have his in Lacy. As bad as Lacy has looked lately, you cannot make a valid argument that he is any worse than Sartison, or that Kessler did himself any favors by going after an easy belt while Taylor has chosen not to do the same.

If Taylor's next fight is against someone of Haussler's quality, then by all means you can make a case against his credibility. But we know that won't happen, since he doesn't have a **** belt and won't be forced to fight **** mandatories. Sure, Jermain defended against smaller guys when he held the belts, but they were all head and shoulders fairer matched than Kessler's next opponent.

[dstew]

The #1 SMW called out the #1 MW for the fall, and the #1 MW hasn't responded to indicate any real intention of taking it at some point. At the same time he's going above the SMW to fight someone else. That is a terrible state of affairs and far more of a duck.

There's that "duck" word being over used again. Here it's used to describe one boxer failing to comment about a challenge from another boxer. Seriously? Froch has been talking trash about Calzaghe, and I haven't heard Joe issue a response. Does that mean Joe is ducking Carl?

Also, back to the media - has anyone ASKED Pavlik about Kessler? Not that I recall. The boxing press is too busy asking him about Joe Calzaghe and Arthur Abraham. What do these two guys share that Kessler doesn't? They both had their last fights in the U.S. against American or American-based fighters with name recognition.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

The only thing that is NOT speculation is that Taylor is avoiding a smaller paycheck for a fight that would add nothing to his resume.

You just said yourself "that Taylor will fight for money over the best competition," implying that if he were offered as much or more for Froch + the WBC belt as he was for Lacy, he would be fighting Froch for the bigger payday. Because that's what he's motivated by, right?

Regardless of what came out of Dibella's mouth in that interview about Froch being the more dangerous fight, he was also honest about the larger motives behind taking the Lacy fight - MONEY. Which you just acknowledged. Yet you and others have no qualms about implying that Taylor was "afraid" to fight Froch by saying he "avoided" him, "ducked" him, or however you want to phrase it, when it is HIGHLY probable based on Taylor's history that if Froch brought more $$$ than Lacy, we'd be seeing Taylor/Froch.

If you're going to criticize a fighter, at least be consistent with your reasoning.


What's hilarious about this is that you are lauding Kessler for calling out Pavlik and Hopkins while questioning Taylor's credibility... well guess what? Taylor's already fought Pavlik. And Hopkins.

Kessler had a comeback fight in Sartison. Let Taylor have his in Lacy. As bad as Lacy has looked lately, you cannot make a valid argument that he is any worse than Sartison, or that Kessler did himself any favors by going after an easy belt while Taylor has chosen not to do the same.

If Taylor's next fight is against someone of Haussler's quality, then by all means you can make a case against his credibility. But we know that won't happen, since he doesn't have a **** belt and won't be forced to fight **** mandatories. Sure, Jermain defended against smaller guys when he held the belts, but they were all head and shoulders fairer matched than Kessler's next opponent.

Ive never said Taylor is afraid of Froch. But theres no doubt hes clearly avoided him. My point is that Taylor thinks money before the best fights. And we all know that the most money doesnt always equal the best fights and if Taylor keeps using that mantra, we may never see him in against Froch or Kessler.

Yeah Taylor has fought Pavlik. Kessler has fought Calzaghe who Taylor also avoided over money. I just hope he doesnt get KOed again before Froch gets to him. So what exactly is your argument here?

Im happy to let Taylor have a tune up fight but I was clearly responding to the criticism that Kessler seems to be getting Stateside whilst you'll all be watching Taylor vs Lacy as if it means something.

Lets just say I hope both step it up in their next fights.........hopefully against each other.

[ragingvic]

I was wondering what the hell people were posting for 7 pages, under Kesslers fight being moved to Oldenburg. LOL.