Muhammad Ali- Was he the greatest heavyweight?

[Bombardier]

I typically stay out of "history" discussions as I am just learning much of the history of boxing myself (watched Hagler-Briscoe last night)

All I've seen was from some documentary footage, but I've got to think Jack Johnson belongs in this discussion.

Nat Fleischer, the founder of Ring magazine, insisted that Jack Johnson was the best heavyweight ever. This man lived a long time and saw most of the greats, including Ali.

Like I said about Dempsey, it's difficult to judge fighters from so long ago. Not that boxing was that much different, but there are many other factors that come into play here. Fighters back then were much smaller. Heavies have gotten bigger throughout the decades, and you can make allowances up to a certain point, but you go back that far and the conditioning is completely different. You also have to take the quality of the film footage we have for these men into question. It's just not very good, and affects our judgements of the fighters we see from that era.

[GasPed]

You are indeed correct, and may I add that there has been only one other figure in sports history to have transcended to such world wide recognition. That being Michael Jordan, who I believe has passed even the great Babe Ruth...

I agree with this, and in fact this is why I would call Ali the Greatest. From a boxing standpoint, he had phenomenal (best ever?) natural talent, and the heart of a lion, but his technical skills were suspect. Nonetheless, he managed to compile a wonderful overall record.

But what really sets him apart was his otherworldly charisma - it made him the first (and perhaps only) boxer to truly transcend boxing, sport in general, and in fact become a global persona. That's what's remakable about Ali.

[Boxerdog]

The thing that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to rate Dempsey is the absence of any fighters other than Caucasions on his resume'.

[bigtex]

I was the flashest hw but probably no the greatest.

[GasPed]

I was the flashest hw but probably no the greatest.

Hey if that's really you, big Tex Cobb, then I'd just like to say you were good and fun (and good fun), but were nowhere near the flashiest or the greatest... ...sorry, Tex.

[Boxerdog]

From a boxing standpoint, he had phenomenal (best ever?) natural talent, and the heart of a lion, but his technical skills were suspect.

Hmmmmmm........Ali's "technicals skills" were suspect????!!!

Thanks for educating me......I've been following the sport for over 40 years and always thought that his skills were what set him apart. I mistakenly thought that he was a student of the sport..taking the best of Archie Moore, Joe Lewis, Gene Tunney and others and adapting them to fit his style.
Silly me!
Live and learn, I guess!!

[Bombardier]

The thing that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to rate Dempsey is the absence of any fighters other than Caucasions on his resume'.

Great point...just ask Wills, whom he never fought.

[GasPed]

Hmmmmmm........Ali's "technicals skills" were suspect????!!!

Thanks for educating me......I've been following the sport for over 40 years and always thought that his skills were what set him apart. I mistakenly thought that he was a student of the sport..taking the best of Archie Moore, Joe Lewis, Gene Tunney and others and adapting them to fit his style.
Silly me!
Live and learn, I guess!!

You're kidding me, right? I mean, you really think Ali was the amalgam of all the skills of Moore, Louis and Tunney? Say it isn't so!!

[SonnyG8R]

I agree with this, and in fact this is why I would call Ali the Greatest. From a boxing standpoint, he had phenomenal (best ever?) natural talent, and the heart of a lion, but his technical skills were suspect.

GasPed is correct. Ali dropped his hands, leaned away from punches and had trouble blocking a jab.

[cple]

The thing that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to rate Dempsey is the absence of any fighters other than Caucasions on his resume'.

So is it impossible to rate Babe Ruth or Ty Cobb because they didn't play against players of other race?