The Greatness of Kostya Tszyu

[abadger]

I feel sorry for Ricky Hatton he will never the respect for beating Kostya. Excuses will always be made for him. Retiring in the stool what a **** way to end your career.

On some HBO broadcast i watched, maybe Cotto v Oktay Urkal, the commentators were discussing the fact that European and Russian boxers (but not brits) are much more willing to quit if they feel they are hurt or are just going to continue getting beaten, and that this is regarded by them a "no big thing". I have no idea if this is really true or not, but thinking about it it does actually make sense. Boxing is a sport and if you know you can't win or are risking your health then its is actually somewhat ******ed to continue fighting to the bitter end. You may feel it 'proves your heart' or something, but what does that even really mean? You still lose, so is it not actually braver to just admit it to yourself and move on?

[Ray*]

Tsyzu didnt really "Quit" against Hatton, Lewis pulled him out and i think he pulled him out for 3 good reasons.

(1) Tsyzu was exhausted from the mauling/wrestling boxing style of Hatton.
(2) Lewis thought he was way behind on the scorecard even though many people had hatton up by a point or draw at that point.
(3) He needed a KO because if the fight had gone on to a decision there is NO WAY tsyzu would get a decision in Manchester.

So he thought there is No point in putting tsyzu who hasnt really been through alot of rounds through another round of that .

[BennyST]

I thought Judah and Mitchell game his trouble, Judah got ****y and became a stationary target in the second round and got knocked out, Mitchell was giving Tszyu quite a lot of trouble before injuring his knee in the first fight, that's why there was such anticipation for the rematch but Mitchell was over the hill by that point.
I remember the Roger Mayweather fight, he was very scared of getting caught by Tszyu, I'd never seen him move that much in any fights I've seen him in and that's including his two fights with Chavez.
I agree, he shouldn't have lost that Phillips fight at all, what bothers me is that he didn't even try to my knowledge to get a rematch with Phillips to avenge that loss, avenging that loss would have cleared any questions about that loss.
He was definitely an underrated boxer, he changed his style to a more power oriented style when he went pro.

Yes and no. Mitchell hadn't lost apart from to Tszyu in over ten years and his only losses up to that point had been to amazing champions Stevie Johnston and Levander Johnson very early in his career. He had just had one of the best runs of his career going on a high winning streak and most had him the best he had ever been and he was meant to take over from Tszyu. Many people had him as a pound for pound fighter at the time and a favourite going in.

Tszyu was ahead on all cards and starting to break Mitchell down in their first fight. It wasn't that hard a fight for him, just ugly. Judah also didn't present much of a problem. He got knocked out in the second round. Even the first round looked much worse than it was with the way Tszyu backed off to avoid it. He actually hardly got hit. In the seond round he wasn't exactly stationary. He just moved left when he should have moved right! He hadn't started standing still or anything though. In fact he had done a lot of moving that round without much throwing.

Yeah, very much agree with the Phillips fight. A bad loss. Phillips was just not close to his league and I think due to his stamina, or lack thereof at that point from no training, he was too tired to just easily out-box him and elected to trade. Terrible. He should have taken the rematch offer though.

Can't give anymore green K yet.

[Left Hook Tua]

Why is it alway "floyd guys" that gets accused of everything? dont you think this same "Floyd guys" would try to big up Hatton so Mayweather's resume would look better because of Hatton?

Cant it be the "Margarito or Cotto guys" that are trying to discredit Hatton so Mayweather's victory over hatton doesnt look too impressive?

well i didn't mean to offend you , ray.

i just don't like to mention people specifically unless they're part of the conversation or in the thread.

there's a reason when i make threads most of the time.

this kostya argument started because of another thread and the guy i was arguing with was a floyd fan and was arguing how floyd would beat kostya easily and who has he fought and who is he.

that's why i said floyd guys.

i told him i'll come back and talk to him about kostya after i was done watching the fights. the fights were over i made this thread.

he was obviously no longer online when i made this thread so i don't want to say so and so said this. i just say floyd guy because he was the one that i was arguing with initially when i made this thread.

if it was a cotto guy that said cotto would beat kostya (which i would argue against as well because i think kostya knocks cotto out) then i would've said cotto guy.

if you've seen a few of my posts you'll see i say marquez guy , wlad guys , cotto guys , etc.

i don't really want to say people's names. especially if they're not on the thread or speaking to me at the time. i think it's rude and would only do it to people i dislike.

[Silencers]

Yes and no. Mitchell hadn't lost apart from to Tszyu in over ten years and his only losses up to that point had been to amazing champions Stevie Johnston and Levander Johnson very early in his career. He had just had one of the best runs of his career going on a high winning streak and most had him the best he had ever been and he was meant to take over from Tszyu. Many people had him as a pound for pound fighter at the time and a favourite going in.

Tszyu was ahead on all cards and starting to break Mitchell down in their first fight. It wasn't that hard a fight for him, just ugly. Judah also didn't present much of a problem. He got knocked out in the second round. Even the first round looked much worse than it was with the way Tszyu backed off to avoid it. He actually hardly got hit. In the seond round he wasn't exactly stationary. He just moved left when he should have moved right! He hadn't started standing still or anything though. In fact he had done a lot of moving that round without much throwing.

Mitchell definitely had the best run of his career before the first Tszyu fight and it was an ugly fight with lots of wrestling in the clinches and quite a few throw downs if I remember correctly, that's also the way Mitchell injured his knee.

Anyway, I thought Mitchell was giving him some problem by using his movement and jab but yes, Tszyu was starting to break him down as the fight wore on.

Judah made a big tactical error in the second round of their fight, he was moving in the right way in the first round and was using his speed but as you said, maybe it was only because Tszyu was laying back to figure Judah out or let Judah get ****y, which is what I think happened, he came out in the second round not exactly stationary but he didn't employ as much movement as he did in the first round and as you said, the movement he did employ was him going the wrong way.

Yeah, very much agree with the Phillips fight. A bad loss. Phillips was just not close to his league and I think due to his stamina, or lack thereof at that point from no training, he was too tired to just easily out-box him and elected to trade. Terrible. He should have taken the rematch offer though.

Yeah, I don't really know why he didn't take the rematch offer, it would have silenced a lot of his critics.

Can't give anymore green K yet.

Don't worry about it, I can't give you any yet either.

[Left Hook Tua]

On some HBO broadcast i watched, maybe Cotto v Oktay Urkal, the commentators were discussing the fact that European and Russian boxers (but not brits) are much more willing to quit if they feel they are hurt or are just going to continue getting beaten, and that this is regarded by them a "no big thing". I have no idea if this is really true or not, but thinking about it it does actually make sense. Boxing is a sport and if you know you can't win or are risking your health then its is actually somewhat ******ed to continue fighting to the bitter end. You may feel it 'proves your heart' or something, but what does that even really mean? You still lose, so is it not actually braver to just admit it to yourself and move on?

it's cultural.

same way in war.

back then there was a "western" way of warfare and "eastern" way.

in the west you go straight to the enemy and lay it all on the line. prime example of this is ancient greek and roman empire way of fighting.

the eastern way , they use strategy , withdrawal and retreats , etc. in the east if you can't win then why lose. parthia is a prime example of this and that's why the romans could never defeat them. if the romans are too strong they just won't fight. then they attack when the romans are not so strong.

cultures are different.

look at mma. if you're losing tap. no honor lost. it's because modern mma traces it's roots to brazilian jiu-jitsu which is based on japanese judo. in those martial arts when you are losing you tap.

[Ray*]

well i didn't mean to offend you , ray.

i just don't like to mention people specifically unless they're part of the conversation or in the thread.

there's a reason when i make threads most of the time.

this kostya argument started because of another thread and the guy i was arguing with was a floyd fan and was arguing how floyd would beat kostya easily and who has he fought and who is he.

that's why i said floyd guys.

i told him i'll come back and talk to him about kostya after i was done watching the fights. the fights were over i made this thread.

he was obviously no longer online when i made this thread so i don't want to say so and so said this. i just say floyd guy because he was the one that i was arguing with initially when i made this thread.

if it was a cotto guy that said cotto would beat kostya (which i would argue against as well because i think kostya knocks cotto out) then i would've said cotto guy.

if you've seen a few of my posts you'll see i say marquez guy , wlad guys , cotto guys , etc.

i don't really want to say people's names. especially if they're not on the thread or speaking to me at the time. i think it's rude and would only do it to people i dislike.

Okay i apologies then if i come across too curious, I didnt know you were arguing with a Floyd fan beforehand...I was just thinking why are "floyd guys" getting blame for a Tsyzu related thread lol.

Once again apologies if my question sound too forward.

[iron_boy]

deep down inside alot of respect for kosta tszyu and i do honestly think he is 1 of the all time greats

[Left Hook Tua]

Okay i apology then if i come across too curious, I didnt know you were arguing with a Floyd fan beforehand...I was just thinking why are "floyd guys" getting blame for a Tsyzu related thread lol.

Once again apologies if my question sound too forward.

no apologies needed. if i offend (and it's not intentional) i'll explain my reasoning.

i don't like to say people's names thats why. like if you and i argued on a subject. the next time the same subject comes up it'd be rude to say RAYCOREY says this or was wrong or whatever. so i'd just call you so-so (whichever fighter you were on the side of at the time or you're a big fan of) guy.

i'd rather use generalization than bring up a person's name that isn't even online or part of the conversation at the moment.

[Ray*]

no apologies needed. if i offend (and it's not intentional) i'll explain my reasoning.

i don't like to say people's names thats why. like if you and i argued on a subject. the next time the same subject comes up it'd be rude to say RAYCOREY says this or was wrong or whatever. so i'd just call you so-so (whichever fighter you were on the side of at the time or you're a big fan of) guy.

i'd rather use generalization than bring up a person's name that isn't even online or part of the conversation at the moment.

okay i understand No problem then thanks.