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Not sure what your crying about,,,that is fact...
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Duran beat Ray..and lost twice...quitting..Not he could should of would he quit..and also got his ass handed to him repeatedly...REPEATEDLY,,whenvever he stepped up against the big dogs.
Facts my friends..and also Duran Resume is full of 0-3 type of fighters.....Fact my friend.Comment
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You again?! Duran's 1-2 record against Leonard doesn't matter. In the grand scheme of things, Sugar Ray Leonard is a boxing icon, Roberto Durán is a boxing legend.
Here's a general team sport analogy: It doesn't matter if a team loses the season series against a given rival, as long as it wins the world championship. Conversely, it doesn't matter that Duran lost the trilogy against leonard, as long as he is ranked among boxing's elite, unlike Leonard.
Think Big Picture
The caption on the bottom of the magazine cover says it all...Comment
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wpink, are you still running down Duran? What's the deal with you? You're getting more obsessive than Dios used to be with his rantings. Yes he won the first fight against Leonard. Had to quit in the second fight because of stomach cramps. And lost again to Leonard when he was damn near 40 years old. This 3rd fight against Leonard occured after Duran was way out of his prime. The main point is that in his prime against Leonard in his prime, Duran beat Leonard fair and square. I know you idolize Leonard, but there's nothing you can do about the facts.
Duran started his professional career at 118 lbs and eventually won the middleweight title. (No way Leonard can make a similar claim) That's amazing. It's like Pacquiao winning the middleweight championship. And he did it at age 38 by beating Iran Barkley (who destroyed Tommy Hearns twice). Not only that he was the first man ever to take HAGLER the distance and almost won that fight on points.
Here are a few more facts about your favorite boxer:
In 2002, he was chosen by The Ring Magazine to be the 5th greatest fighter of the last 80 years. He held world titles at four different weights - lightweight (1972-79), welterweight (1980), junior middleweight (1983-84) and middleweight (1989). He was also the only boxer to have fought in five different decades.
He finally retired in January 2002 at age 50 (having previously retired in 1998) with a professional record of 120 fights, 104 wins with 69 KOs.
Duran was simply one of the greats ever to step into the ring.Comment
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Wiley Hyena- your post about shows that you flat out do not know the facts behind boxing and that anything Duran does you make excuses for, and lose major crediblity.
Since you appear to be such a major Duran fan, and whin about 'My fighter quit because his tummy hurt",,,,Wow.. I encourage you to purchase Durans autobiagraphy where in it...HIS OWN AUTOBIAGRAPHY, HIS OWN WORDS..PAGE 204...GO TO BARNES AND NOBLES IF YOU YOU DONT HAVE IT, AND EITHER BUY IT, OR READ THAT ENTIRE CHAPTER DEVOTED TO HIS TANGLES WITH SUGAR RAY LEONARD, AND MOST NOTABLE PAGE 202-205.....
Duran admits he NEVER had a single cramp. Not a one. That is not what forced him to quit, it was a made up theory buy a person in Durans camp shortly after the fight. However, Duran quit because Leonard did not fight him toe to toe. His exact words when he quit was not NO MAS, it was "No quiero pelear con el payaso". which means I do not want to fight with this clown.
Those are your facts my friend. When you get on here to try to tell others facts about your man, please get them right. Duran simply could not beat leonard if he boxed, his corner knew that even in the 1st fight (page 185) that if padilla did not let duran hold and maul..that Duran would lose. That is why they were very scared of having Padilla referee.
"Yes he won the first fight against Leonard. Had to quit in the second fight because of stomach cramps. And lost again to Leonard when he was damn near 40 years old. This 3rd fight against Leonard occured after Duran was way out of his prime. The main point is that in his prime against Leonard in his prime, Duran beat Leonard fair and square. I know you idolize Leonard, but there's nothing you can do about the facts"
Another false statement included in this paragraph that begs addressing, and shows how your review of the Leonard-Duran saga is flawed, and not accepted by anyone but Duran fans.
1. Duran for the 1st fight had to train down form 180+ pounds. Was partying on a place called 5th street gym in Miami, and ALWAYS before fights indulges until roughly 2 months before the fight. page 178. The same for fight 1, and the same for fight 2,which he had to train down from 188 vs 183 for the 1st fight.... Duran always blew up between fights, nothing new for the leoinard fights, most notably the 2nd fight. Major flawed theory. IN fact now he only had to get down to 147 vs 135 before.
2. Duran was 29 YRS 4 DAYS FOR THE FIRST FIGHT. IN his prime...and according you to,, he was out of his prime at 29 YEARS 5 MONTHS 9 DAYS, for the 2nd fight. Hmmmmm lot of aging going on in 5 months according to you.WOW..........Every other fighter in history is judged by up to at least age 31...99% judged up to around age 34. I say at least 31 because of ERik Morales...Also, there is no dis*****g that he was his very very best at 135,however every other fighter is judged on how they fare at the weight classes north. Sugar Ray Robinson, Leonad, Sugar shane, Mayweather, Armstrong...DLH, Roy jones..So Duran should be judged the same.. However, according to you, Duran somehow was out of his prime, and should not be held accountable because he was at welterwieght, and he tummy cramps...Wow...very very false, weak, and even Duran does not support this false excuse.
3. There is no debate on Duran Greatness. However, I merely point out that Duran has accomplished all the titles you point out, but while at 135 in ammasing the 70 wins, his resume was filled with 40 or so fights that fighters like Ray Leonard, Mayweather, etc...they do not fight these types of fighters with records of 0-3 once they are a champion. or fighters with 0-0 records when they are starting their trade. Duran did,but Duran fans,,the same ones that cry that mayweather is fighting bums,or ducking somebody,,,refuse to admit that Duran as a champion fought some of the worst fighters (recordwise) ever. I mean ever. If you look at Boxrec...those are facts, and I challenge you to get a top champion and produce not 20 fightrs like duran had, but 1-2 fighters with a record of 1-3,,,after that champion got the belt. You will not address it, or accept the challlenge as no other duran fan has, because it shows that there was some credible issues with 20+ fights that duran had after he became champion.
I concede he is a top 10 of all time, and this i have always said, never argued, but my friend you go on subjective reasoning, which is always opininon and anyone can say I think Durna is the best ever...etc.. However what you will not accept is facts, like Leonard and duran are 1-1 during peak years...The scoring was as close as close can be in the 1st fight, and that Duran quit the 2nd fight, when that is unexcusible, and he was losing by the way. Finally you and others will not discuss his resume,when it is there for the world to see....including 4 ass whippings before the age of 34...So once again get your facts straight son.. I did say facts not opinion, cuz we are all entitled to those, no matter how biased or based on false stuff they are.
I look at facts...FACTS. And the facts support clearly duran as a top fighter of all time, but also shows he was not this god like figure that you and others try to paint him to be. He had issues with certain styles, like all fighters. He lost fights fair and square, and Duran fans need to stop trying to minimize the accomplishments of every fighter duran faced that night, and accept duran lost ot a better man that night. Duran, had a fantastic record at lightweight, any one that has 70 victories vs 1 loss is all timer, but the fact is 20+ fights were vs fighters he should not have been in the ring with. If you dont want to judge the fights Duran had when he was 38 or so, which a gree with, then why are you giving him credit for fighting a fighter who is 1-3, once he was a champion.....Duran In my book is 1 notch below Leonard, and that is how I see it..Both top 10..and to the fella that says Duran is among boxing elite, and leonard isnt...Hmmmm Leonard is universaly accepted as generally at top 10-20 fighter. I think when you have million plus fighters to ever lace up gloves.....hmmm that places them both in the elite status....Dont you?Last edited by wpink1; 11-21-2007, 09:42 AM.Comment
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You have written more words on this forum detracting from the legend of Roberto Durán than Christian Giudice wrote in his book Hands of Stone about him, which (contrary to your claim) is not an AUTObiography.
I am that "fella" who said that Duran is among boxing's elite (top 10) and Leonard isn't. Your anti-Durán obsession will never alter that fact. Get a life!Last edited by Panamaniac; 11-22-2007, 01:20 AM.Comment
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Thank-You WPink1 - I was wondering if after reading all this B.S. if I was ever going to come across anyone who would dispute the "No Mas"... It's about time. Karma for you...Comment
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Duran never uttered the words "No Mas"... read this...
"Next, Leonard went back to the Olympic Stadium in Montreal to defend his title against former lightweight champion Roberto Duran, in the first superfight of the 1980s. In a long, grueling contest, mostly fought against the ropes or in corners, the more experienced Duran outmauled Leonard and captured a close, but unanimous decision. Leonard surprised many observers by standing flat-footed with the Panamanian slugger.
Their rematch was held in travis New Orleans on November 25, 1980. This time around, Leonard used far more lateral movement and jabs, staying off the ropes whenever possible. In round 7, Leonard taunted Duran, dropping his arms and winding up with a bolo punch. Neither fighter had absorbed much punishment, but Leonard had a narrow lead on all three scorecards after 7 rounds. In round 8, Duran turned around, walked to his corner and gave up. Although Duran is widely remembered for the now famous words, "no más," he never actually said them. It was actually commentator Howard Cosell who uttered the phrase. Regardless, the sports world was stunned by Duran's actions. The controversy regarding this bout and Duran's motivation for quitting continues to this day. However, in an interview with ESPN, Duran had stated that he had started to get stomach cramps and felt it better to quit now than suffer through it."
I'm not arguing who was better, I'm just shocked that people still use the term No Mas to this day...Comment
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