EdwinValero is going to knock PAcquiao out! Mark my words.

[Jose Rizal]

So, as in the previous example, how is that any different at all from Pacquiao beating Ledwaba? See, what you are forgetting is that this started when a few people said it is easy to KO every opponent until you get to contender or championship level.

Well, actually it is very, very difficult. Only a few people I can think have been able to do it. Valero being one of them. He is a current champ who beat the previous champ via KO. Someone said Pacquiao would have done the same thing if he had fought the same competition. Well, up until Ledwaba and past he did fight the same type of competition and he couldn't do it. That is my point.

Mosquera is contender, championship level of the same caliber as Ledwaba. Actually, quite a bit better. Ledwaba is nowhere to be seen and has done absolutely nothing since losing to Pacquiao, yet people still bring him up as one of the best guys Pac has fought. He had not fought anyone and has fought no one since. How is that any different to where Valero is now? The champ that Mosquera beat for the title is still ten times the fighter anyone Ledwaba faced. He had actually beat quite a few good fighters.

The only difference at this stage of their respective careers is that Pacquiao had been knocked out cold twice and had not knocked out every one of his opponents. Can you see what I'm getting at here Mel? After all, that is what we're talking about. So what if Mosquera knocked him down. Did he win? No, he got knocked out. You might as well bring up when Pacquiao basically got knocked out by a jab from Hussein and then you could also bring up that the referee in the phillipines then screwed Hussein over and stopped the fight on a BS cut.

I don't think anyone is saying Valero has fought great competition because he hasn't. No one is denying that. We are, however, looking at certain facts of their respective careers and also their strengths. Valero has more power than Pacquiao and at a similar stage in their careers is still knocking out the better fighters he faced and the contenders/champion he faced instead of being knocked out so lose the sad sarcasm and try looking at it at face value. Do we still count Pacquiaos first title winning effort even though it was against an absolute nobody?

That comparison of the boxers’ KO ratios is too simplistic.

Valero began his professional career at the age of 20. He had an extensive amateur background and was a national champ in his native Venezuela (thrice I think). Valero already possessed more advanced boxing knowhow than Pac at the onset of their careers. Valero’s early victims were worse and he had a better chance of scoring KO’s against those bums. The first guy he fought with a pulse took him 2 rounds to KO but that was hardly a big jump in terms of class. Lately we’ve been seeing him having a harder time blowing away his competition early as he gets near top level.

In contrast, the young Pac had a crude style relying solely on his left hand power, work rate and stamina to win. Pac was a scrawny 16 yr. old boxing noob with limited amateur experience when he turned pro. He made a big leap in his technique (particularly with his footwork) only when Roach finally first got hold of him. Even at the time he bludgeoned MAB into submission he still hadn’t entered into his prime and was rightly considered a somewhat one-dimensional pressure fighter back then (especially in the Pac-JMM aftermath were his limitations were exposed). He was a late bloomer as far skills development (particularly with the use of his right hand) were concerned, yet when matched up with the best, he still came out on top despite these limitations. That’s what’s remarkable about him. Even up to now he is still a work-in-progress, slowly improving his craft and this is what makes him more dangerous then he ever was.

Also, I think Valero’s 1st round blow outs of his opponents while impressive will bite him at Elite level. He lacks the experience in a battle of attrition with a top tier foe talented enough to take him into deep waters where his resolve and abilities would be tested to their absolute limits. Pac earned his P4P status the hard way and it’s his experience at Elite that would help him negate Valero’s vaunted power.

[Boofdatruth]

boof,

what do you think are valeros flaws if and when he gets to fight pac.?

His flaws are that he backs straight up...fades back, and with Pac's speed, you can not back straight back. He also has a habit of holding his hands too wide when a fighter gets close. Against a good inside fighter can exploit that. Valero has been stronger than everyone so he hasn't had to worry about that. Pac is going to be faster than anyone he fights. That is his equalizer against anyone he faces. Only Floyd was faster. Pac fits in well because he is tall too. Like I said, you see how PAc fits in at all of the weights he fought at. Imagine him at flyweight lol.

[Boofdatruth]

That comparison of the boxers’ KO ratios is too simplistic.

Valero began his professional career at the age of 20. He had an extensive amateur background and was a national champ in his native Venezuela (thrice I think). Valero already possessed more advanced boxing knowhow than Pac at the onset of their careers. Valero’s early victims were worse and he had a better chance of scoring KO’s against those bums. The first guy he fought with a pulse took him 2 rounds to KO but that was hardly a big jump in terms of class. Lately we’ve been seeing him having a harder time blowing away his competition early as he gets near top level.

In contrast, the young Pac had a crude style relying solely on his left hand power, work rate and stamina to win. Pac was a scrawny 16 yr. old boxing noob with limited amateur experience when he turned pro. He made a big leap in his technique (particularly with his footwork) only when Roach finally first got hold of him. Even at the time he bludgeoned MAB into submission he still hadn’t entered into his prime and was rightly considered a somewhat one-dimensional pressure fighter back then (especially in the Pac-JMM aftermath were his limitations were exposed). He was a late bloomer as far skills development (particularly with the use of his right hand) were concerned, yet when matched up with the best, he still came out on top despite these limitations. That’s what’s remarkable about him. Even up to now he is still a work-in-progress, slowly improving his craft and this is what makes him more dangerous then he ever was.

Also, I think Valero’s 1st round blow outs of his opponents while impressive will bite him at Elite level. He lacks the experience in a battle of attrition with a top tier foe talented enough to take him into deep waters where his resolve and abilities would be tested to its absolute limits. Pac earned his P4P status the hard way and it’s his experience at Elite that would help him negate Valero’s vaunted power.

Even though I go the other way, this was one hell of a post. A good read too.

[UnderPressure]

Yep. Valero got floored by Loco.

What round?

[Jose Rizal]

Even though I go the other way, this was one hell of a post. A good read too.

Hey, nothing wrong with a friendly discussion, right?

[BennyST]

never said YOU said pac would get koed. the THREAD is about that, and i am stating in regards to it. stop ur high and mighty bull****. this is not english class son. violence, never that. soooo amateur!

Sure son.

[BennyST]

That comparison of the boxers’ KO ratios is too simplistic.

Valero began his professional career at the age of 20. He had an extensive amateur background and was a national champ in his native Venezuela (thrice I think). Valero already possessed more advanced boxing knowhow than Pac at the onset of their careers. Valero’s early victims were worse and he had a better chance of scoring KO’s against those bums. The first guy he fought with a pulse took him 2 rounds to KO but that was hardly a big jump in terms of class. Lately we’ve been seeing him having a harder time blowing away his competition early as he gets near top level.

In contrast, the young Pac had a crude style relying solely on his left hand power, work rate and stamina to win. Pac was a scrawny 16 yr. old boxing noob with limited amateur experience when he turned pro. He made a big leap in his technique (particularly with his footwork) only when Roach finally first got hold of him. Even at the time he bludgeoned MAB into submission he still hadn’t entered into his prime and was rightly considered a somewhat one-dimensional pressure fighter back then (especially in the Pac-JMM aftermath were his limitations were exposed). He was a late bloomer as far skills development (particularly with the use of his right hand) were concerned, yet when matched up with the best, he still came out on top despite these limitations. That’s what’s remarkable about him. Even up to now he is still a work-in-progress, slowly improving his craft and this is what makes him more dangerous then he ever was.

Also, I think Valero’s 1st round blow outs of his opponents while impressive will bite him at Elite level. He lacks the experience in a battle of attrition with a top tier foe talented enough to take him into deep waters where his resolve and abilities would be tested to its absolute limits. Pac earned his P4P status the hard way and it’s his experience at Elite that would help him negate Valero’s vaunted power.

Great post mate! You know, funnily enough, for some reason I think Pacquiao is more vulnerable now than he was three or four years ago. I think with the small, subtle loss of the insane aggression he brought to the ring, he has lost what made him so dominant. Even Marquez mentioned that the second fight was less intense than the first. Anyway, that's neither here nor there.

Valero is actually rather similar to the early Pac in that he really only has a left hand. He does jab ok, but really, he just throws the left hand non stop, much like Pac used to. Valero has a decent left to the body though which Pac didn't throw as much. I agree with everything that you wrote. Nonetheless, you didn't seem to be catching on to what I was trying to get at.

I believe that if Valero and Pac fight soon that Pac will, sorry Boof, basically wipe the floor with him. Too skilled, fast, controlled and while he may take one or two big shots I don't believe they will be enough to KO him. He may get hurt or stunned but I highly doubt he'll lose.

Anyway, what I was trying to get at was the argument that someone made which was due to the competition they had faced, Pac had more power. Obviously, Pac has faced better competition, that does not even need to be said. However, at the comparative stage of each others careers Pac had not knocked everyone out and even up to when he was knocked out for the second time he was still beating people on points. All I'm trying to get at, which too many people refuse may be possible, is that someone may have more punching power. It does not mean they are better or that they will win, or even get close!

I can't discuss Valero's amateur background as I don't know anything about it. What I can say is that, while he started much later than Pac he has still knocked out all of his opponents, contenders and champs alike. While Valero has been knocking people out later on in the fight, he is still doing it. Interestingly enough though, Pacquiao seemed to go on a knock out spree later on in his career. Around the latter stage after he had faced Ledwaba. Previous to that though, he had quite a few UD or points wins.

Now, this obviously makes it seem like I'm thinking Pac will lose or that I'm trying to put Pac down, whether it's as having not as much power as Valero or that Valero will knock Pac out. I'm sure that's what everyone here wants to think anyway, but, it could be nothing further from the truth. I just don't like to see everyone blind-sided by their admiration for a fighter and to ignore the obvious merits of another fighter or even go so far as to blatantly disrespect another fighter which happens far too often here.

This post is long enough already, so in conclusion, all I'm tying to get at is that you cannot ignore the fact that Valero has a remarkable KO ratio. 100%! Very few fighters in history have had that up to the point he is at now which is championship level. Like it or not, Pac did not and probably could not have done it either. None of that will matter, of course, when or if, they step in the ring together as Pac will have the edge in speed, experience, skill and defense. No matter if you're more powerful than the other guy, you still have to be able to land flush and enough to hurt him without him hitting you enough to do the same! Great fight whoever wins. My bet goes with Pac via TKO. Valero is just a bit too limited at this stage.

[Boofdatruth]

Hey, nothing wrong with a friendly discussion, right?

No doubt. The insults over boxing really don't even need to hit the boards. I can understand every now and then it is fun to indulge, but you've seen some of the stuff said here lol.

[Boofdatruth]

Great post mate! You know, funnily enough, for some reason I think Pacquiao is more vulnerable now than he was three or four years ago. I think with the small, subtle loss of the insane aggression he brought to the ring, he has lost what made him so dominant. Even Marquez mentioned that the second fight was less intense than the first. Anyway, that's neither here nor there.

Valero is actually rather similar to the early Pac in that he really only has a left hand. He does jab ok, but really, he just throws the left hand non stop, much like Pac used to. Valero has a decent left to the body though which Pac didn't throw as much. I agree with everything that you wrote. Nonetheless, you didn't seem to be catching on to what I was trying to get at.

I believe that if Valero and Pac fight soon that Pac will, sorry Boof, basically wipe the floor with him. Too skilled, fast, controlled and while he may take one or two big shots I don't believe they will be enough to KO him. He may get hurt or stunned but I highly doubt he'll lose.

Anyway, what I was trying to get at was the argument that someone made which was due to the competition they had faced, Pac had more power. Obviously, Pac has faced better competition, that does not even need to be said. However, at the comparative stage of each others careers Pac had not knocked everyone out and even up to when he was knocked out for the second time he was still beating people on points. All I'm trying to get at, which too many people refuse may be possible, is that someone may have more punching power. It does not mean they are better or that they will win, or even get close!

I can't discuss Valero's amateur background as I don't know anything about it. What I can say is that, while he started much later than Pac he has still knocked out all of his opponents, contenders and champs alike. While Valero has been knocking people out later on in the fight, he is still doing it. Interestingly enough though, Pacquiao seemed to go on a knock out spree later on in his career. Around the latter stage after he had faced Ledwaba. Previous to that though, he had quite a few UD or points wins.

Now, this obviously makes it seem like I'm thinking Pac will lose or that I'm trying to put Pac down, whether it's as having not as much power as Valero or that Valero will knock Pac out. I'm sure that's what everyone here wants to think anyway, but, it could be nothing further from the truth. I just don't like to see everyone blind-sided by their admiration for a fighter and to ignore the obvious merits of another fighter or even go so far as to blatantly disrespect another fighter which happens far too often here.

This post is long enough already, so in conclusion, all I'm tying to get at is that you cannot ignore the fact that Valero has a remarkable KO ratio. 100%! Very few fighters in history have had that up to the point he is at now which is championship level. Like it or not, Pac did not and probably could not have done it either. None of that will matter, of course, when or if, they step in the ring together as Pac will have the edge in speed, experience, skill and defense. No matter if you're more powerful than the other guy, you still have to be able to land flush and enough to hurt him without him hitting you enough to do the same! Great fight whoever wins. My bet goes with Pac via TKO. Valero is just a bit too limited at this stage.

Another H.O.F post. When you read informative posts, It's like eating a steak and lobster tail. You just want more lol. I'd rather be hit this kind of thought, rather than, "Valero is a bum, who did he beat"? I just want to see what Pac does against a brawler whose intentions are to seek and destroy. It is the type of fight we have not seen PAc in since the first Morales fight.

[Boofdatruth]

but it's ok for you to call david diaz a bum as you did the other night, and i can not say that valero's comp is not good enough to say he would ko pac'? yeah your a joke, and a hypocrite as well.

You can say anything you want, I don't give a...your past posts show you to be uninfomred anyway. Go ahead, post your worthless posts.