Win, Lose or Draw against Hasim...

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  • ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY
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    #1

    Win, Lose or Draw against Hasim...

    No matter what happens let me just say that it still stands in my eyes that James Toney should be remembered as something close to a boxing great when you consider the entire body of work he put down over his long career. In his prime, on his absolute best nights, he was really something to see and even now, past his prime, he is fighting with tried and true heavyweights and he is right there with them and, if anything, has shown to be the much better man in terms of overall skills.

    At this point in his career James Toney is still a heavyweight with the potential to do something at that weight and, as it stands now, he is a guy who could even get another heavyweight title fight in the next year or so.

    To think James, now a very competent heavyweight, was a middleweight champion a full decade and a half ago is pretty impressive. In my eyes I see him as one of the great counter punchers and defensive specialists in the world today and, as a matter of fact, in terms of his style and what he does and how he does it I don't think there is anyone else in the world in the class of an on-point and in shape, motivated James Toney.

    Let me put it this way. James defeated defending world champions Michael Nunn, Iran Barkley, Vassiliy Jirov and John Ruiz. (He defeated Ruiz for the WBA heavyweight title in a sterling performance after I started writing this chapter. The decision was eventually nullified when James tested positive for a banned substance but it doesn't change the fact that he beat a real heavyweight. If he did take steroids that was wrong but, still, steroids don't give you skills and it was skills more than any brawn or strength that appeared to give him his short lived victory that night). He pinned the first defeats on unbeaten fighters like Nunn, Jirov, and Tim Littles. He stopped Prince Charles Williams with one awesome punch in the 12th and final round of their fight and broke Barkley down over nine rounds for a systematic working over that was essentially a clinic on counter punching and inside fighting. He also scored a twelve round decision over future two-division champ Reggie Johnson right after he beat Nunn for the title and later on in his career he totally dominated and dismantled (albeit a way past his prime) Evander Holyfield and also defeated young heavyweight prospect Dominic Guinn. All in all he won legitimate world titles at middleweight, super middleweight, cruiserweight and heavyweight and as a result of all that I believe that James "Lights Out" Toney will one day be sitting in the Hall of Fame.

    (If longevity is a factor then James Toney is qualified there, too. Put it this way: In late 1994 he lost that wide decision to Roy Jones in the fight that really set RJ on his way to superstardom. James went on into a funk of sorts after that fight and lost twice in razor thin decisions to Montell Griffin. He eventually found his way back to form, though, and won another legitimate world title (from Jirov) almost a full decade later and just recently he defeated heavyweight prospect Dominick Guinn (on October 1, 2005) by a wide and clear decision. He also, of course, actually won a version of the heavyweight title when he beat Ruiz. Boxing and life in general sometimes has a funny way of doing things. The decision win on TV over Guinn came on the very same night, probably within an hour of each other, when Roy Jones was looking like an old fighter and losing a clear decision to Antonio Tarver. What a difference eleven years makes, huh? Here it is more than a full decade after Roy made his name off of James Toney and Roy is thought by many to be finished as a legitimate world title threat now while James, on the other hand, has just come off of what may be the most interesting and lucrative period of his career with fights against the likes of Holyfield, Rachman, Ruiz and Peter (twice).

    To wrap it all up in one final overview I will put it to you like this: In my opinion, if you have a young kid or a young pro and you want him to learn how to really fight, to really box, and learn to pick his shots, roll with punches, stay unusually relaxed, to pull victory out when things look dim (like he did with Nunn, Littles and Jirov) and counter punch with precision then just have him sit right down and study some prime James Toney fights because at their best it's all Professional Boxing101.
  • MANGLER
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    #2
    Originally posted by ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY
    No matter what happens let me just say that it still stands in my eyes that James Toney should be remembered as something close to a boxing great when you consider the entire body of work he put down over his long career. In his prime, on his absolute best nights, he was really something to see and even now, past his prime, he is fighting with tried and true heavyweights and he is right there with them and, if anything, has shown to be the much better man in terms of overall skills.

    At this point in his career James Toney is still a heavyweight with the potential to do something at that weight and, as it stands now, he is a guy who could even get another heavyweight title fight in the next year or so.

    To think James, now a very competent heavyweight, was a middleweight champion a full decade and a half ago is pretty impressive. In my eyes I see him as one of the great counter punchers and defensive specialists in the world today and, as a matter of fact, in terms of his style and what he does and how he does it I don't think there is anyone else in the world in the class of an on-point and in shape, motivated James Toney.

    Let me put it this way. James defeated defending world champions Michael Nunn, Iran Barkley, Vassiliy Jirov and John Ruiz. (He defeated Ruiz for the WBA heavyweight title in a sterling performance after I started writing this chapter. The decision was eventually nullified when James tested positive for a banned substance but it doesn't change the fact that he beat a real heavyweight. If he did take steroids that was wrong but, still, steroids don't give you skills and it was skills more than any brawn or strength that appeared to give him his short lived victory that night). He pinned the first defeats on unbeaten fighters like Nunn, Jirov, and Tim Littles. He stopped Prince Charles Williams with one awesome punch in the 12th and final round of their fight and broke Barkley down over nine rounds for a systematic working over that was essentially a clinic on counter punching and inside fighting. He also scored a twelve round decision over future two-division champ Reggie Johnson right after he beat Nunn for the title and later on in his career he totally dominated and dismantled (albeit a way past his prime) Evander Holyfield and also defeated young heavyweight prospect Dominic Guinn. All in all he won legitimate world titles at middleweight, super middleweight, cruiserweight and heavyweight and as a result of all that I believe that James "Lights Out" Toney will one day be sitting in the Hall of Fame.

    (If longevity is a factor then James Toney is qualified there, too. Put it this way: In late 1994 he lost that wide decision to Roy Jones in the fight that really set RJ on his way to superstardom. James went on into a funk of sorts after that fight and lost twice in razor thin decisions to Montell Griffin. He eventually found his way back to form, though, and won another legitimate world title (from Jirov) almost a full decade later and just recently he defeated heavyweight prospect Dominick Guinn (on October 1, 2005) by a wide and clear decision. He also, of course, actually won a version of the heavyweight title when he beat Ruiz. Boxing and life in general sometimes has a funny way of doing things. The decision win on TV over Guinn came on the very same night, probably within an hour of each other, when Roy Jones was looking like an old fighter and losing a clear decision to Antonio Tarver. What a difference eleven years makes, huh? Here it is more than a full decade after Roy made his name off of James Toney and Roy is thought by many to be finished as a legitimate world title threat now while James, on the other hand, has just come off of what may be the most interesting and lucrative period of his career with fights against the likes of Holyfield, Rachman, Ruiz and Peter (twice).

    To wrap it all up in one final overview I will put it to you like this: In my opinion, if you have a young kid or a young pro and you want him to learn how to really fight, to really box, and learn to pick his shots, roll with punches, stay unusually relaxed, to pull victory out when things look dim (like he did with Nunn, Littles and Jirov) and counter punch with precision then just have him sit right down and study some prime James Toney fights because at their best it's all Professional Boxing101.
    Co-sign. Good post homey. Toney will be remembered and missed long after he calls it a career.

    Comment

    • !! Shawn
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      #3
      Originally posted by ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY
      No matter what happens let me just say that it still stands in my eyes that James Toney should be remembered as something close to a boxing great when you consider the entire body of work he put down over his long career. In his prime, on his absolute best nights, he was really something to see and even now, past his prime, he is fighting with tried and true heavyweights and he is right there with them and, if anything, has shown to be the much better man in terms of overall skills.

      At this point in his career James Toney is still a heavyweight with the potential to do something at that weight and, as it stands now, he is a guy who could even get another heavyweight title fight in the next year or so.

      To think James, now a very competent heavyweight, was a middleweight champion a full decade and a half ago is pretty impressive. In my eyes I see him as one of the great counter punchers and defensive specialists in the world today and, as a matter of fact, in terms of his style and what he does and how he does it I don't think there is anyone else in the world in the class of an on-point and in shape, motivated James Toney.

      Let me put it this way. James defeated defending world champions Michael Nunn, Iran Barkley, Vassiliy Jirov and John Ruiz. (He defeated Ruiz for the WBA heavyweight title in a sterling performance after I started writing this chapter. The decision was eventually nullified when James tested positive for a banned substance but it doesn't change the fact that he beat a real heavyweight. If he did take steroids that was wrong but, still, steroids don't give you skills and it was skills more than any brawn or strength that appeared to give him his short lived victory that night). He pinned the first defeats on unbeaten fighters like Nunn, Jirov, and Tim Littles. He stopped Prince Charles Williams with one awesome punch in the 12th and final round of their fight and broke Barkley down over nine rounds for a systematic working over that was essentially a clinic on counter punching and inside fighting. He also scored a twelve round decision over future two-division champ Reggie Johnson right after he beat Nunn for the title and later on in his career he totally dominated and dismantled (albeit a way past his prime) Evander Holyfield and also defeated young heavyweight prospect Dominic Guinn. All in all he won legitimate world titles at middleweight, super middleweight, cruiserweight and heavyweight and as a result of all that I believe that James "Lights Out" Toney will one day be sitting in the Hall of Fame.

      (If longevity is a factor then James Toney is qualified there, too. Put it this way: In late 1994 he lost that wide decision to Roy Jones in the fight that really set RJ on his way to superstardom. James went on into a funk of sorts after that fight and lost twice in razor thin decisions to Montell Griffin. He eventually found his way back to form, though, and won another legitimate world title (from Jirov) almost a full decade later and just recently he defeated heavyweight prospect Dominick Guinn (on October 1, 2005) by a wide and clear decision. He also, of course, actually won a version of the heavyweight title when he beat Ruiz. Boxing and life in general sometimes has a funny way of doing things. The decision win on TV over Guinn came on the very same night, probably within an hour of each other, when Roy Jones was looking like an old fighter and losing a clear decision to Antonio Tarver. What a difference eleven years makes, huh? Here it is more than a full decade after Roy made his name off of James Toney and Roy is thought by many to be finished as a legitimate world title threat now while James, on the other hand, has just come off of what may be the most interesting and lucrative period of his career with fights against the likes of Holyfield, Rachman, Ruiz and Peter (twice).

      To wrap it all up in one final overview I will put it to you like this: In my opinion, if you have a young kid or a young pro and you want him to learn how to really fight, to really box, and learn to pick his shots, roll with punches, stay unusually relaxed, to pull victory out when things look dim (like he did with Nunn, Littles and Jirov) and counter punch with precision then just have him sit right down and study some prime James Toney fights because at their best it's all Professional Boxing101.
      I personally believe that James Toney is the best infighter of all time. I have never seen anyone that can create magic on the inside like James Toney can.

      People also vastly underrate his hand speed. Prime James was almost as fast as Roy.

      Comment

      • Feint
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        #4
        No doubt James Toney was a great fighter but his time has passed and I can't help but think by continuing to fight he is chipping away at his legacy.

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        • Silencers
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          #5
          Toney was a very, very good fighter.

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          • ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY
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            #6
            His clutch performances against Nunn, Littles and Jirov are the stuff of legend

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            • !! Shawn
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              #7
              Originally posted by Feint
              No doubt James Toney was a great fighter but his time has passed and I can't help but think by continuing to fight he is chipping away at his legacy.
              No more than Archie Moore did, or SRR, or Muhammad Ali, or Joe Louis.

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              • Dan...
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                #8
                Originally posted by !! Shawn
                No more than Archie Moore did, or SRR, or Muhammad Ali, or Joe Louis.
                This is a really important point IMO. So what if fighters want to keep fighting well past their best? Why should their legacies be damaged by this when past fighters have done the exact same thing yet maintained their legacies? It is the continuation of the double standards between current and old fighters.

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                • Silencers
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                  #9
                  Originally posted by ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY
                  His clutch performances against Nunn, Littles and Jirov are the stuff of legend
                  I thought his best overall performance was against Barkley.

                  But it didn't get anymore clutch than those three fights.

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                  • ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY
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                    #10
                    James was so relaxed and CALM ON THE INSIDE...it was almost hard to believe that he could stand in there with so many top clas fighters, especially guys who were much bigger than he was, and he could dominate them punch for punch on the inside. He matched McCallum blow for blow when Mike was still a boxing SCIENTIST

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