Did Pacquiao surpass JCC Sr. in greatness?

Collapse
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • MANGLER
    Sex Tape Flop Artist
    Franchise Champion - 20,000+ posts
    • Feb 2008
    • 30142
    • 1,705
    • 2,355
    • 46,598

    #31
    Not yet he ain't. But the way he's goin, he will become a legend fans will still talk about after he's long gone.

    Comment

    • mrpain81
      Undisputed Champion
      Unified Champion - 10,00-20,000 posts
      • Jun 2007
      • 12112
      • 986
      • 870
      • 35,268

      #32
      Ring Magazine Ratings

      End 1984 Jr Lightweights

      1. Julio Cesar Chavez
      2. Roger Mayweather - Chavez Ko 2
      3. Mario Azabache Martinez - Chavez Ko 8
      4. Rafael Solis
      5. Bobby Chacon
      6. Edgar Castro
      7. Kenny Baysmore
      8. Pat Cowdell
      9. Jean-Marc Renard
      10. Kamel Bou-Ali

      End 1985 Jr Lightweights

      1. Julio Cesar Chavez
      2. Rocky Lockridge - Chavez W12
      3. Roger Mayweather
      4. Alfredo Layne
      5. Mario Azabache Martinez
      6. Rafael Solis
      7. Kenny Baysmore
      8. Johnny De La Rosa
      9. Francisco Tomas Da Cruz
      10. Barry Michael

      End 1986 Jr Lightweights

      1. Julio Cesar Chavez
      2. Barry Michael
      3. Juan La Porte
      4. Rocky Lockridge
      5. Mario Azabache Martinez
      6. Alfredo Layne
      7. Mario Miranda
      8. Dennis Cruz
      9. Johnny De La Rosa
      10. Kenny Baysmore

      End 1987 Lightweights


      1. Julio Cesar Chavez
      2. Vinny Pazienza
      3. Pernell Whitaker
      4. Jose Luis Ramirez - Chavez W 11
      5. Edwin Rosario - Chavez TKO 11
      6. Meldrick Taylor
      7. Greg Haugen
      8. Primo Ramos
      9. Rocky Lockridge
      10. Amancio Castro

      End 1988 Lightweights


      Julio Cesar Chavez, Champion

      1. Pernell Whitaker
      2. Jose Luis Ramirez
      3. Greg Haugen
      4. Edwin Rosario
      5. Azumah Nelson
      6. Amancio Castro
      7. Tony Lopez
      8. Anthony Jones
      9. Rocky Lockridge
      10. Brian Mitchell

      End 1989 Jr Welterweight

      1. Julio Cesar Chavez
      2. Meldrick Taylor - Chavez TKO 12
      3. Juan Martin Coggi
      4. Roger Mayweather - Chavez TKO 10
      5. Livingstone Bramble
      6. Loreto Garza
      7. Hector Camacho
      8. Frankie Randall
      9. Sammy Fuentes - Chavez TKO 10
      10. Jose Luis Ramirez

      End 1989 Ring P4P list

      1. Mike Tyson
      2. Julio Cesar Chavez
      3. Pernell Whitaker
      4. Michael Nunn
      5. Antonio Esparragoza
      6. Meldrick Taylor
      7. Azumah Nelson
      8. Raul Perez
      9. Virgil Hill
      10. Marlon Starling

      End 1990 Jr Welterweight

      1. Julio Cesar Chavez
      2. Loreto Garza
      3. Roger Mayweather
      4. Hector Camacho
      5. Juan Martin Coggi
      6. Charles Murray
      7. John Meekins
      8. Pat Barrett
      9. John Duplessis - Chavez Ko 4
      10. Angel Hernandez - Chavez Ko 5

      End 1990 Ring P4P list

      1. Julio Cesar Chavez
      2. Pernell Whitaker
      3. Michael Nunn
      4. Antonio Esparragoza
      5. Meldrick Taylor
      6. Evander Holyfield
      7. Mike Tyson
      8. Raul Perez
      9. Myung-Woo Yuh
      10. Khaosai Galaxy

      End 1991 Jr Welterweight Ratings



      1. Julio Cesar Chavez
      2. Rafael Pineda
      3. Edwin Rosario
      4.Terrence Alli
      5. Charles Murray
      6. Hector Camacho
      7. Greg Haugen
      8. Roger Mayweather
      9. Loreto Garza
      10. Pat Barrett

      End 1991 P4P ratings not available


      End 1992 Jr Welterweight ratings

      1 .Julio Cesar Chavez
      2. Pernell Whitaker
      3. Terrence Alli - Chavez Ko 6
      4. Charles Murray
      5. Morris East
      6. Rafael Pineda
      7. Carlos Gonzalez
      8. Hector Lopez
      9. Greg Haugen - Chavez Ko 5
      10. Kostya Tszyu

      End 1992 P4P ratings

      1. Julio Cesar Chavez
      2. Pernell Whitaker
      3. Terry Norris
      4. Orlando Canizales
      5. James (Buddy) McGirt
      6. Rid**** Bowe
      7. Azumah Nelson
      8. Sung-Kil Moon
      9. Julian Jackson
      10. James Toney

      End 1993 Jr Lightweight ratings


      1. Julio Cesar Chavez
      2. Juan Martin Coggi
      3. Charles Murray
      4. Zack Padilla
      5. Kostya Tszyu
      6. Carlos Gonzalez
      7. Hector Lopez
      8. David Kamau
      9. Tony Lopez
      10. Ray Oliveira

      End 1993 P4P ratings

      1. Pernell Whitaker
      2. Julio Cesar Chavez
      3. James Toney
      4. Michael Carbajal
      5. Orlando Canizales
      6. Evander Holyfield
      7. Ricardo Lopez
      8. Roy Jones Jr.
      9. Kennedy McKinney
      10. Yuri Arbachakov

      -------------------------------------------------------

      9+ years of Chavez being #1 in every division he was in, going undefeated and a good 3-4 years he was considered P4P the best in the world.

      Manny could pass Chavez in the future but it's hard to match those numbers.

      Comment

      • Steak
        Undisputed Champion
        Unified Champion - 10,00-20,000 posts
        • Aug 2006
        • 10713
        • 509
        • 268
        • 17,902

        #33
        Originally posted by mrpain81
        Ring Magazine Ratings

        End 1984 Jr Lightweights

        1. Julio Cesar Chavez
        2. Roger Mayweather - Chavez Ko 2
        3. Mario Azabache Martinez - Chavez Ko 8
        4. Rafael Solis
        5. Bobby Chacon
        6. Edgar Castro
        7. Kenny Baysmore
        8. Pat Cowdell
        9. Jean-Marc Renard
        10. Kamel Bou-Ali

        End 1985 Jr Lightweights

        1. Julio Cesar Chavez
        2. Rocky Lockridge - Chavez W12
        3. Roger Mayweather
        4. Alfredo Layne
        5. Mario Azabache Martinez
        6. Rafael Solis
        7. Kenny Baysmore
        8. Johnny De La Rosa
        9. Francisco Tomas Da Cruz
        10. Barry Michael

        End 1986 Jr Lightweights

        1. Julio Cesar Chavez
        2. Barry Michael
        3. Juan La Porte
        4. Rocky Lockridge
        5. Mario Azabache Martinez
        6. Alfredo Layne
        7. Mario Miranda
        8. Dennis Cruz
        9. Johnny De La Rosa
        10. Kenny Baysmore

        End 1987 Lightweights


        1. Julio Cesar Chavez
        2. Vinny Pazienza
        3. Pernell Whitaker
        4. Jose Luis Ramirez - Chavez W 11
        5. Edwin Rosario - Chavez TKO 11
        6. Meldrick Taylor
        7. Greg Haugen
        8. Primo Ramos
        9. Rocky Lockridge
        10. Amancio Castro

        End 1988 Lightweights


        Julio Cesar Chavez, Champion

        1. Pernell Whitaker
        2. Jose Luis Ramirez
        3. Greg Haugen
        4. Edwin Rosario
        5. Azumah Nelson
        6. Amancio Castro
        7. Tony Lopez
        8. Anthony Jones
        9. Rocky Lockridge
        10. Brian Mitchell

        End 1989 Jr Welterweight

        1. Julio Cesar Chavez
        2. Meldrick Taylor - Chavez TKO 12
        3. Juan Martin Coggi
        4. Roger Mayweather - Chavez TKO 10
        5. Livingstone Bramble
        6. Loreto Garza
        7. Hector Camacho
        8. Frankie Randall
        9. Sammy Fuentes - Chavez TKO 10
        10. Jose Luis Ramirez

        End 1989 Ring P4P list

        1. Mike Tyson
        2. Julio Cesar Chavez
        3. Pernell Whitaker
        4. Michael Nunn
        5. Antonio Esparragoza
        6. Meldrick Taylor
        7. Azumah Nelson
        8. Raul Perez
        9. Virgil Hill
        10. Marlon Starling

        End 1990 Jr Welterweight

        1. Julio Cesar Chavez
        2. Loreto Garza
        3. Roger Mayweather
        4. Hector Camacho
        5. Juan Martin Coggi
        6. Charles Murray
        7. John Meekins
        8. Pat Barrett
        9. John Duplessis - Chavez Ko 4
        10. Angel Hernandez - Chavez Ko 5

        End 1990 Ring P4P list

        1. Julio Cesar Chavez
        2. Pernell Whitaker
        3. Michael Nunn
        4. Antonio Esparragoza
        5. Meldrick Taylor
        6. Evander Holyfield
        7. Mike Tyson
        8. Raul Perez
        9. Myung-Woo Yuh
        10. Khaosai Galaxy

        End 1991 Jr Welterweight Ratings



        1. Julio Cesar Chavez
        2. Rafael Pineda
        3. Edwin Rosario
        4.Terrence Alli
        5. Charles Murray
        6. Hector Camacho
        7. Greg Haugen
        8. Roger Mayweather
        9. Loreto Garza
        10. Pat Barrett

        End 1991 P4P ratings not available


        End 1992 Jr Welterweight ratings

        1 .Julio Cesar Chavez
        2. Pernell Whitaker
        3. Terrence Alli - Chavez Ko 6
        4. Charles Murray
        5. Morris East
        6. Rafael Pineda
        7. Carlos Gonzalez
        8. Hector Lopez
        9. Greg Haugen - Chavez Ko 5
        10. Kostya Tszyu

        End 1992 P4P ratings

        1. Julio Cesar Chavez
        2. Pernell Whitaker
        3. Terry Norris
        4. Orlando Canizales
        5. James (Buddy) McGirt
        6. Rid**** Bowe
        7. Azumah Nelson
        8. Sung-Kil Moon
        9. Julian Jackson
        10. James Toney

        End 1993 Jr Lightweight ratings


        1. Julio Cesar Chavez
        2. Juan Martin Coggi
        3. Charles Murray
        4. Zack Padilla
        5. Kostya Tszyu
        6. Carlos Gonzalez
        7. Hector Lopez
        8. David Kamau
        9. Tony Lopez
        10. Ray Oliveira

        End 1993 P4P ratings

        1. Pernell Whitaker
        2. Julio Cesar Chavez
        3. James Toney
        4. Michael Carbajal
        5. Orlando Canizales
        6. Evander Holyfield
        7. Ricardo Lopez
        8. Roy Jones Jr.
        9. Kennedy McKinney
        10. Yuri Arbachakov

        -------------------------------------------------------

        9+ years of Chavez being #1 in every division he was in, going undefeated and a good 3-4 years he was considered P4P the best in the world.

        Manny could pass Chavez in the future but it's hard to match those numbers.
        good stuff.

        I dont really care for statistics, but Ill just throw out that Chavez beat around 14 or 15 champions and has the most successful title fights in the history of the sport. and this was when the title belts meant more than they do today.

        but lets try to compare Pacquiao to others when his career is over. for now, lets just enjoy his career.

        Comment

        • mrpain81
          Undisputed Champion
          Unified Champion - 10,00-20,000 posts
          • Jun 2007
          • 12112
          • 986
          • 870
          • 35,268

          #34
          Originally posted by blackirish137
          good stuff.

          I dont really care for statistics, but Ill just throw out that Chavez beat around 14 or 15 champions and has the most successful title fights in the history of the sport. and this was when the title belts meant more than they do today.

          but lets try to compare Pacquiao to others when his career is over. for now, lets just enjoy his career.
          I agree, we should enjoy watching an ATG like Manny do his thing.

          Comment

          • boxaholic
            Undisputed Champion
            Platinum Champion - 1,000-5,000 posts
            • May 2008
            • 2651
            • 38
            • 19
            • 8,927

            #35
            Originally posted by mrpain81
            Ring Magazine Ratings

            End 1984 Jr Lightweights

            1. Julio Cesar Chavez
            2. Roger Mayweather - Chavez Ko 2
            3. Mario Azabache Martinez - Chavez Ko 8
            4. Rafael Solis
            5. Bobby Chacon
            6. Edgar Castro
            7. Kenny Baysmore
            8. Pat Cowdell
            9. Jean-Marc Renard
            10. Kamel Bou-Ali

            End 1985 Jr Lightweights

            1. Julio Cesar Chavez
            2. Rocky Lockridge - Chavez W12
            3. Roger Mayweather
            4. Alfredo Layne
            5. Mario Azabache Martinez
            6. Rafael Solis
            7. Kenny Baysmore
            8. Johnny De La Rosa
            9. Francisco Tomas Da Cruz
            10. Barry Michael

            End 1986 Jr Lightweights

            1. Julio Cesar Chavez
            2. Barry Michael
            3. Juan La Porte
            4. Rocky Lockridge
            5. Mario Azabache Martinez
            6. Alfredo Layne
            7. Mario Miranda
            8. Dennis Cruz
            9. Johnny De La Rosa
            10. Kenny Baysmore

            End 1987 Lightweights


            1. Julio Cesar Chavez
            2. Vinny Pazienza
            3. Pernell Whitaker
            4. Jose Luis Ramirez - Chavez W 11
            5. Edwin Rosario - Chavez TKO 11
            6. Meldrick Taylor
            7. Greg Haugen
            8. Primo Ramos
            9. Rocky Lockridge
            10. Amancio Castro

            End 1988 Lightweights


            Julio Cesar Chavez, Champion

            1. Pernell Whitaker
            2. Jose Luis Ramirez
            3. Greg Haugen
            4. Edwin Rosario
            5. Azumah Nelson
            6. Amancio Castro
            7. Tony Lopez
            8. Anthony Jones
            9. Rocky Lockridge
            10. Brian Mitchell

            End 1989 Jr Welterweight

            1. Julio Cesar Chavez
            2. Meldrick Taylor - Chavez TKO 12
            3. Juan Martin Coggi
            4. Roger Mayweather - Chavez TKO 10
            5. Livingstone Bramble
            6. Loreto Garza
            7. Hector Camacho
            8. Frankie Randall
            9. Sammy Fuentes - Chavez TKO 10
            10. Jose Luis Ramirez

            End 1989 Ring P4P list

            1. Mike Tyson
            2. Julio Cesar Chavez
            3. Pernell Whitaker
            4. Michael Nunn
            5. Antonio Esparragoza
            6. Meldrick Taylor
            7. Azumah Nelson
            8. Raul Perez
            9. Virgil Hill
            10. Marlon Starling

            End 1990 Jr Welterweight

            1. Julio Cesar Chavez
            2. Loreto Garza
            3. Roger Mayweather
            4. Hector Camacho
            5. Juan Martin Coggi
            6. Charles Murray
            7. John Meekins
            8. Pat Barrett
            9. John Duplessis - Chavez Ko 4
            10. Angel Hernandez - Chavez Ko 5

            End 1990 Ring P4P list

            1. Julio Cesar Chavez
            2. Pernell Whitaker
            3. Michael Nunn
            4. Antonio Esparragoza
            5. Meldrick Taylor
            6. Evander Holyfield
            7. Mike Tyson
            8. Raul Perez
            9. Myung-Woo Yuh
            10. Khaosai Galaxy

            End 1991 Jr Welterweight Ratings



            1. Julio Cesar Chavez
            2. Rafael Pineda
            3. Edwin Rosario
            4.Terrence Alli
            5. Charles Murray
            6. Hector Camacho
            7. Greg Haugen
            8. Roger Mayweather
            9. Loreto Garza
            10. Pat Barrett

            End 1991 P4P ratings not available


            End 1992 Jr Welterweight ratings

            1 .Julio Cesar Chavez
            2. Pernell Whitaker
            3. Terrence Alli - Chavez Ko 6
            4. Charles Murray
            5. Morris East
            6. Rafael Pineda
            7. Carlos Gonzalez
            8. Hector Lopez
            9. Greg Haugen - Chavez Ko 5
            10. Kostya Tszyu

            End 1992 P4P ratings

            1. Julio Cesar Chavez
            2. Pernell Whitaker
            3. Terry Norris
            4. Orlando Canizales
            5. James (Buddy) McGirt
            6. Rid**** Bowe
            7. Azumah Nelson
            8. Sung-Kil Moon
            9. Julian Jackson
            10. James Toney

            End 1993 Jr Lightweight ratings


            1. Julio Cesar Chavez
            2. Juan Martin Coggi
            3. Charles Murray
            4. Zack Padilla
            5. Kostya Tszyu
            6. Carlos Gonzalez
            7. Hector Lopez
            8. David Kamau
            9. Tony Lopez
            10. Ray Oliveira

            End 1993 P4P ratings

            1. Pernell Whitaker
            2. Julio Cesar Chavez
            3. James Toney
            4. Michael Carbajal
            5. Orlando Canizales
            6. Evander Holyfield
            7. Ricardo Lopez
            8. Roy Jones Jr.
            9. Kennedy McKinney
            10. Yuri Arbachakov

            -------------------------------------------------------

            9+ years of Chavez being #1 in every division he was in, going undefeated and a good 3-4 years he was considered P4P the best in the world.

            Manny could pass Chavez in the future but it's hard to match those numbers.
            Damn. You just backed up that argument.

            Comment

            • nnamme
              Contender
              Silver Champion - 100-500 posts
              • Jun 2008
              • 200
              • 1
              • 0
              • 6,240

              #36
              Originally posted by Puas
              True, just cuz a fighter wins belts in more weight divisions does not mean he's accomplished more than another fighter.

              Pac has still got about 50 to 60 fights to achieve Chavez status. About a fight a month for the next few years and he may come close.
              yeah, just like what JCC jr. is doing now, fighting bums on his first 30-50 fights!

              Comment

              • Chups
                Banned
                Unified Champion - 10,00-20,000 posts
                • May 2004
                • 18402
                • 1,835
                • 1,281
                • 52,879

                #37
                Originally posted by ferocity
                Chups, what the **** you drinking in pinoy land?

                Damn, must be some of that top quality ****.
                You judged me too soon. I personally don't think Pac has passed JCC yet. For so many reasons and one would be coz JCC made so many defenses of his titles unlike Pac who only made a couple.

                But some morons here thinks it because Pac hasn't fought a lot of fighters which to me is MOOT when it comes to acquiring greatness. JCC fought a lot of great fighters but it cannot be denied that he fought a lot of bums that padded his record.

                There's already a lot of coomplaining from critics whenever Pac fights average level fighters.....how can someone expect him to pad his record.....lol.

                Anyway it's just a question and it didn't come from pinoyland.....lol.

                Comment

                • Zarco
                  Undisputed Champion
                  Platinum Champion - 1,000-5,000 posts
                  • May 2006
                  • 4760
                  • 184
                  • 133
                  • 12,032

                  #38
                  Originally posted by flipside
                  if you examine chavez's fights how many of his wins came against a recognizable fighter?
                  OMG you did not just say that.

                  Comment

                  • Steak
                    Undisputed Champion
                    Unified Champion - 10,00-20,000 posts
                    • Aug 2006
                    • 10713
                    • 509
                    • 268
                    • 17,902

                    #39
                    some people are such children about the 'tomato can' thing. theres nothing wrong with fighting bums to keep in shape and give your poorer hometown fans a show. plus Mexican fighters dont often have amateur careers because they need money. thats what all those early fights are for.

                    fighting bums is not a bad thing, but its not a good thing either. instead, just judge the fighter on his signifigant wins.

                    Comment

                    • shadeyfizzle
                      Undisputed Champion
                      Super Champion - 5,000-10,000 posts
                      • Feb 2008
                      • 7448
                      • 160
                      • 43
                      • 13,959

                      #40
                      Originally posted by blackirish137
                      some people are such children about the 'tomato can' thing. theres nothing wrong with fighting bums to keep in shape and give your poorer hometown fans a show. plus Mexican fighters dont often have amateur careers because they need money. thats what all those early fights are for.

                      fighting bums is not a bad thing, but its not a good thing either. instead, just judge the fighter on his signifigant wins.
                      Well according to some people...Pacquiao's most significant wins may as well have come from bums because they were on their way out already and should not count.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      TOP