Most Overated Fighters of all Time

[oldgringo]

I addressed it. I stated that the motivation comes when a fighter signs, trains, and steps between the ropes.

You address that. Address my points.

Innactivity is a real killer. But not for EVERY fighter.

You have heard of exceptions, yes?


Regarding Hopkins:

Interestingly, it was you, OG, who planted the first seeds for many people here on the forum advocating a Hopkins victory.

I remember your first post on the subject months ago. It was a very strong argument and one few could or should disagree with..

You have Hopkins to beat Wright. Just like I do.


The tone of your debate becomes a little contentious and emotional when you get pressured however.. That's dissapointing.


I'll be waiting for Cotto's next fight so we can put an end to this.

I hope it's not someone like Mosley or Mayweather so there are no excuses.

I prefer Miguel fights someone like Margarito, or even Gomez so people really get the message.

There are exceptions, but since when has Oscar been one of them? He has fought 4 times in the past 3 years and he has only looked spectacular against a tailor made opponent who had the ****in flank steak beaten out of him in his last appearance. He looked terrible against Sturm, terrible against Hopkins, and he looked pretty good against Floyd, who was a physically weaker fighter.

There is a track record for fighters having trouble with their timing, accuracy and reflex after long layoffs. This is especially the case when you talk about an older fighter. Margarito, Quartey and Castillo are some recent examples. I hope this addresses your point.

I'm going with Hopkins because I feel that he is flat out bigger and better than Wright, and I'm also a fan of Bernard Hopkins. I pull for Hop in pretty much every fight he is in. I felt he may not have been able to overcome Tarver's size and activity, but he proved me wrong.

I become contentious and emotional when I'm pressured? Yeah because I'm not a robot. I'm sorry if that disappoints you. I will always put a little emotion behind my debates. Contending points with you and everyone else is part of my make up. I'm not going to pretend to be some complete middle man who only watches boxing to predict fights with 100% accuracy. Part of the intrigue of sports is living and dying with the teams/players/clubs/etc that you associate yourself with. I can be an adult about admitting when I'm wrong, and you'll hardly ever see me **** on someone else because they lost a bet/fight/whatever (unless it's fix). I haven't called you names...I feel that I have maintained a good level of respect in this dialogue.

Miguelito will show that he's a fighter that everybody should respect pretty soon. Win, lose or draw the guy will always give 100% and he'll always provide some fireworks. I happen to think that he's one of the best fighters in the world, but I have thought that from day one.

[Addison]

There are exceptions, but since when has Oscar been one of them? He has fought 4 times in the past 3 years and he has only looked spectacular against a tailor made opponent who had the ****in flank steak beaten out of him in his last appearance. He looked terrible against Sturm, terrible against Hopkins, and he looked pretty good against Floyd, who was a physically weaker fighter.

There is a track record for fighters having trouble with their timing, accuracy and reflex after long layoffs. This is especially the case when you talk about an older fighter. Margarito, Quartey and Castillo are some recent examples. I hope this addresses your point.

I'm going with Hopkins because I feel that he is flat out bigger and better than Wright, and I'm also a fan of Bernard Hopkins. I pull for Hop in pretty much every fight he is in. I felt he may not have been able to overcome Tarver's size and activity, but he proved me wrong.
I become contentious and emotional when I'm pressured? Yeah because I'm not a robot. I'm sorry if that disappoints you. I will always put a little emotion behind my debates. Contending points with you and everyone else is part of my make up. I'm not going to pretend to be some complete middle man who only watches boxing to predict fights with 100% accuracy. Part of the intrigue of sports is living and dying with the teams/players/clubs/etc that you associate yourself with. I can be an adult about admitting when I'm wrong, and you'll hardly ever see me **** on someone else because they lost a bet/fight/whatever (unless it's fix). I haven't called you names...I feel that I have maintained a good level of respect in this dialogue.

Miguelito will show that he's a fighter that everybody should respect pretty soon. Win, lose or draw the guy will always give 100% and he'll always provide some fireworks. I happen to think that he's one of the best fighters in the world, but I have thought that from day one.

That's a fine post, OG.


However, my point regarding the "fanboy" stuff is this.. If we cannot make a point about a fighter we see flaws with; without fans blindly attacking said posts - then we have a ****ing problem.

It dumbs down the whole forum, and the argument itself.


Your opinion on following certain teams, players, athletes is true for most - but not all, and every.. And it's certainly not a requirement to appreciate a sport or a performance.

Your posts here are fraught with opnions, speculation, and your specific point of view.. What's there to argue about??

Not much, clearly..

You have designed it that way.


Something else - you picked Tarver over Hopkins???

Because of size and activity..

Size and activity.

Yet, you say Miguel Cotto would "break Williams in two.."

You say Miguel Cotto would defeat Paul Williams???


Oh boy..

This is exactly what I'm referring to with this fan ****.

[tyson]

This is a great debate you guys have going here, Addison and Oldgringo!
We need this kind of intelligent discussions here.
Both of you show class which few others in here are capable of.

I agree with Addison for the most part though; Don't think that Cotto would beat Williams right now. Maybe a couple of fights from now...?
De La Hoya, I think, would beat Cotto.

Addison; that fan stuff you're talking about is annoying as anything you care to mention. There's no way you can have a sensible argument with many fanboys who post here.

Oldgringo; You are completely right when you point to history as proof that it's a disadvantage to be inactive.
However, DLH has been competitive in every single fight he's been in, so is there any reason he wouldn't be against a smaller, inexperienced Cotto?

[oldgringo]

That's a fine post, OG.


However, my point regarding the "fanboy" stuff is this.. If we cannot make a point about a fighter we see flaws with; without fans blindly attacking said posts - then we have a ****ing problem.

It dumbs down the whole forum, and the argument itself.


Your opinion on following certain teams, players, athletes is true for most - but not all, and every.. And it's certainly not a requirement to appreciate a sport or a performance.

Your posts here are fraught with opnions, speculation, and your specific point of view.. What's there to argue about??

Not much, clearly..

You have designed it that way.


Something else - you picked Tarver over Hopkins???

Because of size and activity..

Size and activity.

Yet, you say Miguel Cotto would "break Williams in two.."

You say Miguel Cotto would defeat Paul Williams???


Oh boy..

This is exactly what I'm referring to with this fan ****.

You hardly made a point when you exclaimed, "Miguel Cotto is over rated, he's being favored over Paul Williams and Oscar De La Hoya" (with disdain).

Unless I need to read previous posts of yours in this thread, I saw no further explanation as to why Cotto was over rated, so I took issue with what you said. It seems to me (my opinion) that you can't wait for Cotto to lose, as a result of your opinion that people over rate him (maybe in addition to other reasons). I don't think he is over rated because you hardly see him among the very top p4p fighters lists and pretty much no one thinks he'd just blow out everyone out there.

I would hardly say that I have stated that my opinion is absolute and there is no room for interpretation. I'll say why Cotto beats these guys, you'll say why he loses, at the end of the day I won't think much more of it than whats on the surface. I still believe my points about Oscar's activity and absence from the Welterweight division hold their weight though.

I believed Tarver had the edge Tarver over Hopkins for a variety of reasons. Size and activity just happened to be part of that equation. Hopkins was 41 and he was seemingly slowing down. Tarver was coming off an impressive win over Glen Johnson in which he threw 100 punches in some rounds, close to that in others. I actually bet on Nard to win with Mr. Soprano but I believed Tarver had the edge. I'd have to go back and see what I posted to be sure.

Cotto wouldn't be in that position against Williams and De La Hoya. He would be the shorter guy with a shorter reach obviously, as he has been in almost all of his fights, but he would be the physically stronger man in both of those fights as well. His great recuperative ability, excellent body punching, aggressiveness and ability to impose his will on his opponents by cutting off the ring and getting inside would give him an excellent shot to beat both of these fighter. Cotto is a young man who is getting stronger every fight. His conditioning is much better at this adjusted weight, so his work rate/activity is getting better and better. Williams is going to have a significant edge in activity, reach and height over everyone he fights at 147, so I'd be interested to hear who you feel would beat him...if not Cotto. I think you can see how this situation is different from Hopkins/Tarver.

Anyway, that's how I see things. I believe Cotto will be fighting Mosley before either of these fellas, so there will probably be a good amount of time to see these guys in action before either of these fights would come off.

[STEELHEAD]

Fraudly Harrison has to be in there somewhere

tyson, fraudly, naseem hamed, darchiniyan.

[brently1979]

For me it's Lewis and Tyson, both over rated and over paid for their contribution to the sport.

[oldgringo]

This is a great debate you guys have going here, Addison and Oldgringo!
We need this kind of intelligent discussions here.
Both of you show class which few others in here are capable of.

I agree with Addison for the most part though; Don't think that Cotto would beat Williams right now. Maybe a couple of fights from now...?
De La Hoya, I think, would beat Cotto.

Addison; that fan stuff you're talking about is annoying as anything you care to mention. There's no way you can have a sensible argument with many fanboys who post here.

Oldgringo; You are completely right when you point to history as proof that it's a disadvantage to be inactive.
However, DLH has been competitive in every single fight he's been in, so is there any reason he wouldn't be against a smaller, inexperienced Cotto?

I wasn't saying that Oscar would be blown out against Cotto (I hope I didn't make it sound that way), but I do think that he'd be battered later in the fight if he couldn't muster up the punch or string of punches to knock Cotto out. Cotto doesn't lay off, and he's quite heavy handed. The pressure and consistent body/head attack from Cotto would really take its toll on Oscar physically and mentally.

Cotto may be shorter with a shorter reach, but he's as strong as an ox. I would also say that Cotto really isn't so inexperienced at this point. Less experienced than Oscar, but so are 99% of other fighters out there. With 30 fights under his belt against fighters with varying styles, 2 titles in 2 different weight classes, and a significant title fight (against Judah) at a major venue, I think he's as ready as he'll ever be. No one will ever exactly be ready for a guy like Williams...he's a freak of nature.

[DiegoFuego]

Put Antonio Margarito at the top of this list.

[Jim_Davis]

tyson, fraudly, naseem hamed, darchiniyan.

Boy you asking for an ass whooping

[Addison]

You hardly made a point when you exclaimed, "Miguel Cotto is over rated, he's being favored over Paul Williams and Oscar De La Hoya" (with disdain).

Unless I need to read previous posts of yours in this thread, I saw no further explanation as to why Cotto was over rated, so I took issue with what you said. It seems to me (my opinion) that you can't wait for Cotto to lose, as a result of your opinion that people over rate him (maybe in addition to other reasons). I don't think he is over rated because you hardly see him among the very top p4p fighters lists and pretty much no one thinks he'd just blow out everyone out there.

I would hardly say that I have stated that my opinion is absolute and there is no room for interpretation. I'll say why Cotto beats these guys, you'll say why he loses, at the end of the day I won't think much more of it than whats on the surface. I still believe my points about Oscar's activity and absence from the Welterweight division hold their weight though.

I believed Tarver had the edge Tarver over Hopkins for a variety of reasons. Size and activity just happened to be part of that equation. Hopkins was 41 and he was seemingly slowing down. Tarver was coming off an impressive win over Glen Johnson in which he threw 100 punches in some rounds, close to that in others. I actually bet on Nard to win with Mr. Soprano but I believed Tarver had the edge. I'd have to go back and see what I posted to be sure.

Cotto wouldn't be in that position against Williams and De La Hoya. He would be the shorter guy with a shorter reach obviously, as he has been in almost all of his fights, but he would be the physically stronger man in both of those fights as well. His great recuperative ability, excellent body punching, aggressiveness and ability to impose his will on his opponents by cutting off the ring and getting inside would give him an excellent shot to beat both of these fighter. Cotto is a young man who is getting stronger every fight. His conditioning is much better at this adjusted weight, so his work rate/activity is getting better and better. Williams is going to have a significant edge in activity, reach and height over everyone he fights at 147, so I'd be interested to hear who you feel would beat him...if not Cotto. I think you can see how this situation is different from Hopkins/Tarver.

Anyway, that's how I see things. I believe Cotto will be fighting Mosley before either of these fellas, so there will probably be a good amount of time to see these guys in action before either of these fights would come off.

I agree, I don't think Cotto is overrated anywhere outside certain parts of the world, certain places online, and anywhere outside this forum, basically.

He did make it into the Rings top 10 P4P, though..

He deserves congratulations for that.

Does he deserve it?.. Sure, I think so.


In Cotto we see two different guys.. I cannot say what it is you see, and you are probably equally perplexed as to why I see something apart.

All I can say is this.. I respect your point of view and intelligence much more than most. You are one of the top, top guys in NSB, IMO..

So I won't question this to such a degree I lose sight of your feeling.


If I was going to pick specific fighters I could see defeating Cotto it could be any of them, or all of them. The guy has the sort of flaws that could give out against elite and upper tier fighters.. Pretty much.

There is a personal preference aspect here.. That's true..

I don't like the older Cotto very much. The android, plodding, basically down-syndrome looking stalker that got to impose his natural strength on handpicked opponents.. You see, Cotto has been given alot of special handling and treatment because of where he's from and the blood coarsing through his veins.. Arum wants the money, but I don't think he has as much respect and appreciation for Miguel as his many supporters and fans do.

Clearly not. And to maintain my role here - deservingly not.


The newer version of him I've been more impressed with. He's been quicker, more intelligent, and somewhat dynamic in there.. Improvement, is something he has clearly demonstrated he's capapable of.

I'm also really liking his will to win. We have tossed around the low blows/fouls alot here.. But, honestly the type of person I am - I say get the win. (I have stated this prior)

And win he did.



..........See, you and others refer to Cotto's impressive recuperative ability's - myself and others see that as extremely generous.

The guy gets stunned and hurt by shots that the other guys seem to shake off, or remain unfazed by entirely. He's also not especially fast, farily crude with his technique, and annoyingly steadfast in his pace and approach.

I'm not a fan of Boxing for those sorts of aesthetics.

I like to see guys do things I could never do. Cotto doesn't show me that.

That's just my personal feeling since you requested it..


As much as I try to bend my conciousness and imagination in the direction of Miguel beating guys like Williams and DLH.. It's a tough sell.

But more so DLH than Williams..