best p4p of all time

[Parodius]

These are the 4 best boxers I've ever seen.

Sugar Ray Robinson
Floyd Maywether JR.
Sugar Ray Leonard
P. Whitaker

My favorite fighter of all time is Marvelous Marvin Hagler.

[USA4LIFE]

MY favorite p4p is between Sugar Ray Leonard and Oscar de la Hoya

[{BrownBomber}]

3. Sugar Ray Robinson (174-19-6, 109 KO, 2 no-contests) – Many historians rightly consider Robinson to be the greatest fighting machine ever assembled, and there’s plenty of evidence to back them up. Robinson was a gifted boxer who could dominate a fight with just his jab. He was the perfect blend of speed, power, grace and style and his regal bearing was befitting of a man for whom the phrase "pound for pound" was invented. Robinson won his first 40 professional fights before losing to Jake LaMotta in the second of their six fights, then went undefeated in his next 91. His pre-title victims included LaMotta (five times), Fritzie Zivic (twice), Sammy Angott (three times), Marty Servo (twice), George Costner, and a faded Henry Armstrong.

Though Robinson made only five defenses of his welterweight title, Sugar Ray was 46-0-1 (29 KO) during the four-plus years he was champion. Entering his first fight with Randy Turpin in 1951, Robinson was an incredible 129-1-2 (84 KO). That’s why Turpin’s decision victory still ranks among the greatest upsets in boxing history. When Robinson was at his best, he indeed was the greatest of all time.

Where he falls short on this list is his record from the time he first won the middleweight title until his last championship try 10 years later. Including the 1951 KO win over LaMotta to win the belt, Robinson’s record was a mediocre 23-8-1 (15 KO). Yes, Robinson was miles ahead on points against light-heavyweight champion Joey Maxim before collapsing in the 104-degree heat and a 39-year-old Robinson was unlucky to get a draw in his third fight with Gene Fullmer in 1960. But Robinson was struggling and cut badly in his rematch with Turpin and only a desperate and historic rally saved Sugar Ray from a legacy-crushing defeat. He lost virtually every round to Ralph "Tiger" Jones in his second fight back from a two year retirement in 1955 and the remnants of Robinson lost twice to Paul Pender in 1960. He was a five-time middleweight champion, but that also meant he lost the belt five times.

Make no mistake, Robinson was brilliant, but I believe two men stand above him, both of whom were Robinson victims when one was too young and the other too old.

2. Henry Armstrong (145-20-9, 98 KO) – Armstrong’s signature accomplishment of holding the featherweight, lightweight and welterweight titles simultaneously will never be equaled because current rules prevent a fighter from maintaining more than one divisional championship. The fact that Armstrong achieved this during an era of eight weight classes and undisputed championships makes it even more special. Armstrong came within an eyelash of winning a fourth belt, though not simultaneously, when he fought to a draw with middleweight champion Ceferino Garcia in a bout many thought Armstrong deserved to win.

Imagine a featherweight title holder challenging – and beating – the welterweight champion, then dropping down to lightweight and winning that belt in his very next fight. That’s what Armstrong did when he decisioned 147-pound king Barney Ross May 31, 1938 and beat 135-pound champion Lou Ambers over 15 rounds Aug. 17, 1938. But Armstrong’s greatness is made up of more than just a singular feat. "Homicide Hank" enjoyed one of the greatest years a fighter ever had in 1937, going 27-0 with 26 knockouts, all but two of which lasted six rounds or less. Oh, and he dethroned featherweight champion Petey Sarron in the process. From Jan. 1, 1937 through Sept. 23, 1940, Armstrong was an incredible 59-1-1 (51 KO) before losing his welterweight title to Fritzie Zivic on Oct. 4, 1940.

Armstrong’s welterweight reign was something to behold, and the consistency of his reign is one factor that separates Armstrong from Robinson. He defended the belt 20 times between May 31, 1938 and Oct. 4, 1940 and five of those defenses occurred between Oct. 9 and Oct. 30, 1939. Some of today’s champions would be hard pressed to notch five defenses in three years, much less three weeks.

Armstrong’s busy schedule eventually burned him out, and following a 12th round TKO loss to Zivic in the rematch, he took 18 months off and proceeded to go 40-7-3 (24 KO) before retiring in 1945. One of those seven losses was to a 22 year-old known as Ray Robinson. It might have been a different story had the 1937 Armstrong been in the ring with Sugar Ray instead of the 1943 model.

1. Willie Pep (230-11-1 65 KO) – Why is the man born Guglielmo Papaleo atop this prestigious list? At 5-5 ½, he wasn’t particularly tall and though he scored knockouts 65 times he didn’t possess much power. When they were young amateurs, Sugar Ray Robinson defeated Pep by decision.

What he did was win more fights than any champion in boxing history and he did so with a skill level that likely will never be seen again. Pep is the only fighter to rack up two winning streaks of 60 fights or longer. He began his career by winning his first 63 fights, including the featherweight title from Chalky Wright, before losing a non-title 10-rounder to Sammy Angott. Pep then went unbeaten in his next 73 (including one draw) before losing his championship to Sandy Saddler five-and-a-half years after the Angott loss. Incredibly, 25 of those wins came after Pep recovered from severe injuries suffered in a plane crash in 1947. His record entering the Saddler fight – 136-1-1.

Most of the fighters on this list had the safety net of punching power to bail them out of difficult situations. Pep didn’t enjoy that luxury. To achieve victory, Pep had to win decisively enough through skill alone to earn decisions because more than a few of his fights occurred in his opponents’ hometowns. For Pep, there was precious little room for error; he had to use his full ability every round to secure victory. "The Will O’ The Wisp" used unparalleled defensive skills to frustrate the opposition and his educated feet helped him get in perfect position to counter their misses. Though a safety-first fighter, Pep executed his maneuvers with a flair that was thoroughly entertaining.

Every great fighter has his nemesis, and Pep’s was Saddler, to whom he lost three out of four fights. In two of the losses, Pep was ahead on the scorecards at the time of the stoppages. His two-round KO loss to Lulu Perez in 1954 had a cloud of su****ion hanging over it though nothing was proven. All boxers have times where success is as elusive as the prime Pep, but for the Hartford, Conn. native those times were few and far between.

His greatest moment was his 1950 decision over Saddler to regain his 126-pound title, a fight which many observers called the greatest single example of "the manly art of self-defense." His considerable bag of tricks nearly earned him another featherweight title one day after his 36th birthday as he dazzled Hogan "Kid" Bassey for eight rounds before fatigue – and Bassey’s fists – caught up to him in the ninth. Pep emerged from a six-year retirement at age 42 just to prove he could still do it. After notching eight straight wins, Pep closed the book on one of the most brilliant careers in boxing annals following a six-round decision loss to Calvin Woodland in March 1966.

In the most recent NFL off-season, Jerry Rice’s agent distributed a letter touting his client as the "GOAT," meaning "Greatest Of All Time." The identity of boxing’s GOAT lies within the eye of the beholder, just like the winners of most close fights. Subjectivity lies at the heart of boxing, and while that may be a bad thing at times, it’s good when it comes to making lists like these. After all, there’s nothing like a good-natured argument to break the ice and really get to know someone.

[{BrownBomber}]

7. Joe Louis (63-3, 49 KO) – It has been 55 years since "The Brown Bomber" graced the squared circle and his reign as heavyweight champion remains the standard by which all others are measured. Louis ruled the heavyweights for 11 years 8 months and 7 days and defended his title 25 times. Who knows how many more he could have racked up had it not been for World War II? Forty doesn’t seem out of the question. It’s just as well that Louis didn’t get the chance to try because the heavyweight division, even at its best, was never 40 fighters deep.

Louis’ greatness wasn’t just about how many fights he won but the way he won them. His punches were short, crisp and delivered straight from the shoulder with perfect leverage and balance. His footwork was economical and his ring intelligence was underrated. He knocked out fighters small and tall, fat and thin and no matter what his opponents tried, they knew even before the fight they couldn’t win. His was a style that could have thrived in any era and that’s something that can rarely be said of any fighter. Do yourself a favor and pop in a Joe Louis tape. You’ll be glad you did.

6. Muhammad Ali (56-5, 37 KO) – Ali and Louis were polar opposites when it came to their styles inside the ring and out. When Ali was known as Cassius Marcellus Clay, he was a sharp-punching speed merchant who dangled his hands at his side and pulled his head straight back from punches instead of slipping to the side or ducking underneath them. His offense was limited to a jab and a straight right hand to the head. He completely ignored the body, his hook was improperly thrown and the deficiencies in his uppercut directly led to the famous knockdown by Joe Frazier in Superfight I. When he was older, Ali spent most of his time resting on the ropes, holding opponents behind the head and relying on one of the biggest hearts the game has ever known.

Given all that, you must be asking why Ali is even on this list, and why is he rated above Joe Louis? Because no fighter has achieved so much with so little variety, but he was extraordinary at the things he did well. The Ali that carved up Cleveland Williams would have beaten every heavyweight who ever lived, including "The Brown Bomber." When Ali was at his peak, his dazzling hand and foot speed bewildered his foes and his skills were such that even his limited arsenal stood head and shoulders above everyone else. Even a diminished Ali of the 1970s was head of the class during the greatest heavyweight era of all, when names like Frazier, George Foreman, Ken Norton, Earnie Shavers, Jimmy Young, Jerry Quarry, Oscar Bonavena, Floyd Patterson and George Chuvalo roamed the land. Ali fought them all and beat them all. All the while, he said he was the greatest and unlike many pretenders in all sports who claimed it before and after him, Ali backed up his words with action.

5. Julio Cesar Chavez (108-6-2 87 KO) – "The Lion of Culiacan" is the only active fighter on this list, and though he lost his most recent outing against Grover Wiley due to a fractured hand Sept. 17, Chavez’s accomplishments still merit inclusion on this list. Chavez is widely regarded as the greatest fighter boxing-rich Mexico has ever produced and his 32 wins in championship fights is a ring record. In fact, his 32-4-2 mark in title bouts would be a decent career record these days.

It’s not often that a fighter can be ranked among the very best in two weight classes, but Chavez can say that of his reigns at 130 and especially at 140. He defended his WBC super featherweight title nine times against the likes of Rocky Lockridge (W 12), Juan LaPorte (W 12 in a decision some dispute), Roger Mayweather (KO 2) and Ruben Castillo (KO 6) before hammering Edwin Rosario to win the WBA lightweight belt in a career-best effort. He only stayed at 135 for two defenses, but before he departed he unified the WBA and WBC titles with an 11-round technical decision over friend and sparring partner Jose Luis Ramirez.

Chavez was a hair past his best form by the time he wore down Mayweather in 10 rounds to win the WBC super lightweight title in May 1989, yet he was able to notch 16 defenses over two reigns and unified the WBC and IBF belts with his unforgettable last-second stoppage of Meldrick Taylor. "El Gran Campeon" won his first 87 fights, and there was serious talk among historians that he could have unseated Sugar Ray Robinson as the consensus pound-for-pound greatest if he had retired with a 100-0 record.

Alas, it was not to be.

Chavez failed in two attempts to win his fourth divisional title against welterweights Pernell Whitaker (D 12) and Oscar De La Hoya (KO by 8) and his fistic erosion has been a long, slow process that has been difficult to watch at times. We don’t know if the Wiley loss was Chavez’s true "Adios," but no matter what happens in the future Chavez’s place in history (and his plaque in Canastota) are secure.

4. Roberto Duran (103-16, 70 KO) – The race between Chavez and Duran on this list was very close. Chavez has the better overall record and his ring efforts more consistent, but Duran was a championship level fighter for longer and over more divisions. Duran was at his terrifying best as a lightweight, ruling the division with his "hands of stone" for nearly seven years. All but one of his 11 title defenses ended in knockout. "El Cholo" reached his positive peak in winning the WBC welterweight title from Sugar Ray Leonard in "The Brawl in Montreal" June 20, 1980. Duran resented the attention gold-medal winner Leonard received because he knew in his heart that he was, by far, the greater fighter. Duran unleashed his fury over 15 scintillating rounds, and Leonard, stung by the Panamanian’s pre-fight taunts, ignored his boxing skills and fought chest to chest.

Because Duran was machismo personified that night, his uttering of "no mas" in the Leonard rematch five months later was beyond comprehension for many. Though Duran suffered untold humiliation (and losses to Wilfred Benitez and Kirkland Laing in consecutive fights), he was able to pick up the pieces of his career and reputation with wins over Pipino Cuevas and WBA junior middleweight champion Davey Moore and a valiant, but losing, effort against middleweight king Marvelous Marvin Hagler. Duran was thought to be finished after Thomas Hearns crushed him in two rounds in 1984 but three years later at age 37, Duran amazingly dethroned WBC middleweight champion Iran Barkley with his brain as much as with his brawn. His powers of career resuscitation inspired some to think a 47-year-old Duran could beat WBA middleweight titlist William Joppy. The third round KO loss proved otherwise.

Duran’s career has had many ups and downs but when it comes to greatness, his place is set in stone.

[{BrownBomber}]

These all time P4P ratings are from an article I read and I think they are very accurate.

[{BrownBomber}]

10. Harry Greb (106-8-3, 48 KO, 170 no decisions) – Although Greb possessed an unusually long 74-inch reach for a man who stood 5-8, the "Human Windmill" chose to tear into his opponents from first bell to last. The fact that no films of his fights are known to exist just adds to his mystique, but it also prevents historians from getting a complete picture of how great he was. With no films to study besides five minutes of workout footage and most of his contemporaries long dead, his ring record had to speak for him. Needless to say, it spoke loudly.

His level of competition was mind-boggling, and he fought many of them while virtually blind in one eye. His list of opponents included Billy Miske, Jack Blackburn, George Chip, Tommy Gibbons, Zulu Kid, Al McCoy, Jack Dillon, Battling Levinsky, Frank Klaus, Mike McTigue, Gunboat Smith, Leo Houck, Bill Brennan, Willie Meehan, Gene Tunney, Johnny Wilson, Tommy Loughran, Mickey Walker, Jimmy Slattery, Maxie Rosenbloom and Tiger Flowers – and he was on the winning end much more often than not. According to Boxrec.com, had newspaper decisions been counted as wins, Greb’s record would have read 262-21-15. It’s safe to say that none of today’s best fighters, even the greatest of them, would approach Greb’s level of activity in five lifetimes much less one.

9. Carlos Monzon (89-3-9, 61 KO, 1 no-contest) – Although Bernard Hopkins surpassed Monzon’s middleweight title defense record of 14 long ago, the Argentinean gets on this list for his career accomplishments more than his considerable championship deeds. Following a 10-round loss to Alberto Massi Oct. 9, 1964, Monzon went undefeated in his final 82 fights over the next 13 years. "The Mule" not only avenged all three of his losses, he also reversed the one no-contest and eight of the nine draws incurred during the streak and that’s only because Marcos Bustos did not fight Monzon a second time.

Unlike Greb, there is plenty of video available on Monzon, whose dominance over the middleweights inspired many to call him "King Carlos." When Monzon was at his best, he speared opponents with hard jabs and crushed opponents with his booming right. A gunshot wound to the right shoulder forced Monzon to modify his style from bomber to volume puncher, and that approach served him well in his final fight against Rodrigo Valdez in 1977. Dropped for only the second time in his career in round two, Monzon peppered Valdez with a never-ending stream of punches that sliced through the Colombian’s defense round after round. Monzon was one of the few who left the sport while on top and never came back, allowing fans to remember him only at his best.

8. Jimmy Wilde (132-6-2, 101 KO, 13 no-decisions) - If one lined up all the members of the 100 knockout club, "The Mighty Atom" would easily be the least imposing in terms of looks and build, though Sandy Saddler would give him a run for his money. But within that 5-2 1/2, 100-pound frame was punching power that bordered on the extraterrestrial. He was often 10 percent lighter than his opponents and yet he still scored more knockouts than anyone had a right to expect. Imagine if Ricardo Lopez had challenged IBF bantamweight champion Rafael Marquez and not only beat him but knocked him out. Wilde did that routinely because he had to – there were not enough boxers his own size to fight.

Granted, Wilde’s four-defense flyweight championship reign pales in comparison to Miguel Canto’s 14, Sot Chitalada’s 10 over two reigns and Yuri Arbachakov’s nine, but what separates Wilde from everyone else is the overall record he compiled despite giving away so much poundage to virtually every man he fought. After a loss and a draw to Dai Jones in 1911, Wilde went unbeaten in his next 85 fights (including six no-decisions) before losing to Tancy Lee by 17th round KO in 1915. How did Wilde respond to the loss? By knocking out 28 of his next 29 opponents and winning the world flyweight title. That is greatness personified and that’s why he’s here.

[Sir_Jose]

who is your favourite p4p fighters of all time ???

does rjj appear in yours, hopkins, hagler, frank bruno lol

The question is who is your favorite not who is the best.

My favorite all time would probably have to be Morales. I physically uspet the night he lost to MAB in the third fight.

[blockhead]

sugar ray robinson, roberto duran, henry armstrong, james toney, archie moore