Who’s better p4p. Pavlik or Kessler? And why does Pavlik get a freebee?

[Kris Silver]

I think the thread starter and abadger raise some good points. There were some polls in the last month or so, one of which being whom is the better boxer, Pavlik or Kessler, the majority opinion was Kessler. I'm sure I've seen polls giving Kessler a better chance against Calzaghe than Pavlik. So this beggers the question, why is Pavlik so high, and/or why is Kessler ranked so low, p4p wise. I think it's a mixture of the two.

Pavlik has beaten a couple of so called big American names, which wasn't expected, and per another poll is America's best boxer p4p right now in many peoples eyes. He's just had another boost by beating Lockett, hardly prooves anything we didn't already know about him. I think Pavlik then, is being slightly over hyped, and I do see a double standard.

When discussing p4p, you often see ppl saying so and so should't be as high, or any higher, because no losses doesn't mean much. Yet we hear ppl using no losses as a reason for Pavlik being so high. You see ppl saying a loss isn't a big deal, yet raise Kessler coming off a loss to the p4p #2 fighter as a kind of excuse.

Most agree Kessler is the better boxer technically, and had a better chance against Calzaghe than Pavlik does. I don't think aspects like this are considered enough, yet other more choiceful aspects like no losses, and beating un expectedly a so called big name, twice and more are over played to some extent.

Most think Kessler will be the #1 as SMW when Calzaghe retires of vacates SMW, giving him a close ish fight and viewed by most as #2 now is some achievement which says he's obviously up there in skill. Pavlik hasn't faced Abraham to name but one. It only takes looking at it from another angle and things can look quite differently, which is difficult to do at times, when you deep down are hyped, impressed and rooting for your #1 local fighter.

[Kris Silver]

dup.............

[P4P Opinion]

Only name worth a damn on Kesslers resume is Calzaghy and he got a spanking from that old man. You dont rate Miranda???? He Koed Green and beat Abraham...you don't rate him?

you euroturds are so desperate that you have to go up a division to find a fighter that you delusional turds think will beat kelly


LMFAO

This guy is being satirical right?

[Mugwump]

The opening poster makes some good points. I'd say Pavlik and Kessler are probably around equal when it comes to accomplishments. Whilst US fight fans might call into question the abilities of Kessler's opponents, it's worth making the point that neither Miranda nor Jermain Taylor seem to attract the kind of fervent following which suggests they are "Elite" tier.

I wonder how many people in this thread who've placed Miranda and Taylor on pedestals usually reserved for the likes of Hagler, Hearns etc. have slaughtered the pair of them in here during the last 18 months?

I suppose the only way of settling this is for Kessler & Pavlik to get into the ring with each other for a uniquely special encounter.

If so, my money will probably go on Kessler. Yes, Calzaghe did prove that Kessler has weaknesses (lack of head movement and body fluidity). But I don't think Pavlik has the tools to take advantage of them. At the very least Kessler hits as hard as Kelly, but with greater technique. He's also a pretty useful counterpuncher (think of those whopping uppercuts he planted on Joe) - which will help him in spades for this fight.

But it's in defence where I think Kessler has the clear advantage. Again, I agree that Calzaghe found Kessler easy to hit - but this was only after he was forced to go with plan G (A-F consigned to the trash because they weren't working). I'm not saying Kelly is a one-trick pony, but I think it's true to say he doesn't have an awful lot of adjustments in his locker if Plan A goes wrong. And let's not forget that Calzaghe has VERY fast hands. At best Pavlik's are moderately so.

Finally, I get the feeling that Kelly could hit Kessler's coconut all night long and not put him down. Who is willing to claim the opposite?

[ben41193]

Personally I think Pavlik's wins over Taylor are bigger accomplishments then anything Kessler has done.

Agreed completly

[Steel Town USA]

The opening poster makes some good points. I'd say Pavlik and Kessler are probably around equal when it comes to accomplishments. Whilst US fight fans might call into question the abilities of Kessler's opponents, it's worth making the point that neither Miranda nor Jermain Taylor seem to attract the kind of fervent following which suggests they are "Elite" tier.

Everyone is touting Calzaghe's win over B-Hop as some career defining moment, yet Taylor's TWO victories over a 3-years-younger version of the same man don't qualify as "elite"? What about the draw with Winky Wright, another top P4Per? Who exactly has Kessler beaten of that quality?

At the very least Kessler hits as hard as Kelly, but with greater technique.

Absolutely not. Kessler's KO rate: 72.5%. Pavlik's: 88.3%. The Ring Magazine rated Kelly as the third-hardest puncher in the game behind Wlad & Manny; Kessler wasn't even in the top 20. And look, I realize Andrade has a granite-like chin, but I saw him get knocked down by Yusaf Mack; Kessler hit him with everything in the book and he didn't even flinch.

And Kelly has all the intangibles -- the way he sees and catches punches with his gloves; the way he never, ever telegraphs his own shots; the precise, hammer-like doubling of the jab; the sum of his parts is truly greater than the whole.

Finally, I get the feeling that Kelly could hit Kessler's coconut all night long and not put him down. Who is willing to claim the opposite?

What gives you this feeling? Kelly hits like a mack truck, and Kessler's never been tested like that before. Pavlik by late KO.

Furthermore, I think that Kelly gives Joe C. all he can handle, and maybe more. It boggles my mind that so many people think Calzaghe would destroy Kelly. I'm a fan of both fighters, and I see this as a toss-up.

[abadger]

Two terrific posts from KrisSilver and Mugwump, I agree with them completely.

[johnm is...]

Funny how Pavlik beating Taylor twice suddenly doesn't mean much, but Calzaghe beating old ass Hopkins does....

If JoeCal had slapped around (pardon the pun) a Gary Lockett type fighter, en route to a wide UD, we'd be sifting through 85 "Joe Calzaghe puts on a boxing clinic!!!!" threads, where everyone circle jerks around JoeCal, and all his greatness.

[MELLY-MEL...]

Funny how Pavlik beating Taylor twice suddenly doesn't mean much, but Calzaghe beating old ass Hopkins does....

If JoeCal had slapped around (pardon the pun) a Gary Lockett type fighter, en route to a wide UD, we'd be sifting through 85 "Joe Calzaghe puts on a boxing clinic!!!!" threads, where everyone circle jerks around JoeCal, and all his greatness.

real talk......

[deanrw]

Right now I would say Pavlik deserves his P4P status as he currently is a dominating champion.

We all know Kessler can fight, but realistically he is coming off a loss and is injury prone. Once we see him over the next couple of fights we can better determine where he stands. Kessler is one of the most gifted fighters in the sport, he has all the tools. He just needs another tough opponent and needs his hands and back to hold up.