Will Kelly Pavlik Save America From Becoming The New Europe?

[withoutthee88]

This post was absolutely not intended as a diss on the USA, but I think the names you post highlight the main point of the article. The USA has always been the BEST at boxing, and of those names there is not a single one that is a lock for being the best in his division for the forseeable future, Dawson I'd say is the best, and Pavlik IF he stays in what is quite a weak MW divison. Williams MAYBE, Berto MAYBE, but I think Cotto will have something to say about it. Green, absolutely not in a world that contains Mikkel Kessler and lots of other good SMWs. Malignaggi is OK at best and Bradley has proven nothing.

That was the point, American boxing used to DOMINATE, but it doesn't look like its going to be able to do the same in the very near future, at least not without looking a lot further past its borders than it has traditionally been used to.

Bradley has beaten the #2 light welterweight on his home turf. He's proven more than any light welterweight not named Ricky Hatton, and with Ricky approaching the twilight of his career, Bradley is there to capture the throne. Also, with Calzaghe having 1 or 2 more fights left, Dawson has an ideal opportunity to capture Light heavy.

I truly think that we'll see Flores dominating Cruiser, Dawson at light heavy, Taylor at supper middle, Pavlik at middle, and Bradley at light welter.

I don't think it's that America is fading in boxing talent, I think that a lot of the talent is very young right now.

[abadger]

America never used to dominate, other than certain weight classes. go look at rankings throughout history, names like Leonard, Hagler, Ali etc will stick out, but in other weight classes there were plenty of champs that werent American.

also, I think Green is fighting at Middleweight now actually, thats what his last fight was at. an American prospect at Super Middle is Dirrell, but it doesnt matter because Europeans have usually always owned that division for whatever reason. also throw in James Kirkland at Light Middle...not sure if hes going to be anything amazing, but thats a stale division anyway, and that kid is young and dangerous.

But, as I said, it certainly looks to me that in the next say five years, America is going to have to get used to not being at the pinnacle in quite the same way it has been. Look at the names on their way out, Mayweather, Hopkins, Jones, Winky, De La Hoya, Mosley, Judah, these have ALL been P4P guys, and who are the new ones going to be, at least in the very immediate future? There will be some, but not as many.

Which brings me back to the point of my post. The boxing world has changed, at least for the States. A relatively successful period looks likely to be followed by one where most of the top champs are from Europe and Latino countries, so its going to mean no more stay at home fighting each other for the Americans if they want to be the best.

Like I said, its not a diss at all, just my observation that IF Americans continue to treat boxing like they completely own it, it will lead to stagnation, and that now, more than ever, US fighters like Pavlik need to forget about PPV and "he's not worthy" (probably blame mayweather for the spread of that idea) and actually take on the top Euros and dare I say it, even travel to take their belts.

In the long run as fans this situtation can only be a good thing, because it will lots of great international, probably quite hard to pick fights, but we can only have that if US guys choose to get involved. I really hope they do.

[abadger]

Bradley has beaten the #2 light welterweight on his home turf. He's proven more than any light welterweight not named Ricky Hatton, and with Ricky approaching the twilight of his career, Bradley is there to capture the throne. Also, with Calzaghe having 1 or 2 more fights left, Dawson has an ideal opportunity to capture Light heavy.

I truly think that we'll see Flores dominating Cruiser, Dawson at light heavy, Taylor at supper middle, Pavlik at middle, and Bradley at light welter.

I don't think it's that America is fading in boxing talent, I think that a lot of the talent is very young right now.

Perhaps it isn't, but you guys are absolutely going to have a few quiet years now, and in the meantime lots of guys from all over the place are going to get belts. Basically I'm hoping that it's going to mean a more competitive, broadly spread boxing world, which I think in the long run will be massively better for boxing, IF Americans, who ARE important, fully embrace the idea.

To use a quick example, surely its better if Pavlik takes on Calzaghe, Abraham and Sturm than if he just faces Winky Wright or somebody?

[abadger]

An interesting topic, but "Could USA start protecting theyre fighters", well there's elements of it now, and throughout boxing in all countries. Many in the USA think Euro's are lesser fighters, fight at home for protection, many in Europe think exactly the same of Americans. Truth is, there's elements of truth in area's on both sides. More Americans have been exposed by a massive underdog, than the other way round to be fair, making the suggestion Europeans are actually more modest about theyre fighters, whilst America underestimates them.

This is what makes it difficult to judge really, I try not to focus on nationality so much but it is a factor, I'm afraid I feel some American fighters are already protected and don't show enough willingness to fight outside America. Europeans suffer from they're own problems, Calzaghe certainly coulda chased foreign fights more, but in the UK and many European countries decent crowds are being pulled so it's kinda 6 and two 3's.

I don't think any one country is renowned the best boxing country, just don't. Often it comes down to a country having a much higher population and producing more top levels fighters, and a better chance of elite fighters. But everywheres capable, most places produce decent fighters based on theyre population, resources, economies, and how big boxing is in that respective country.

Pavliks great for American boxing in he is educated on boxing, sound, has a personality, respects his opponents, researches em if he doesn't know much about em, speaks out about ignorance of foreign fighters, fights whomever. That'd be a great attribute to the boxing scene of any nation, I'd certainly be proud of him. Horses for courses though, it's a shame more aren't like him, as there's actually quite a few sound respectful, educated boxers in the game, it's just you expect the mouthy trash talk more out of some American fighters, for all its good and bad.

Pavlik's got a great career ahead regardless, and is a great ambassador for the sport, but there's several others out there too.

I agree that the US actually does protect its fighters, but in recent years they have had good enough domestic rivalry that it was actually a sustainable model, but i think that is about to change. If they don't have so many top boxers then surely we'll see more clashes between the modern day equivalents of say Calzaghe and Jones? I hope so anyway.

[Steak]

But, as I said, it certainly looks to me that in the next say five years, America is going to have to get used to not being at the pinnacle in quite the same way it has been. Look at the names on their way out, Mayweather, Hopkins, Jones, Winky, De La Hoya, Mosley, Judah, these have ALL been P4P guys, and who are the new ones going to be, at least in the very immediate future? There will be some, but not as many.

Which brings me back to the point of my post. The boxing world has changed, at least for the States. A relatively successful period looks likely to be followed by one where most of the top champs are from Europe and Latino countries, so its going to mean no more stay at home fighting each other for the Americans if they want to be the best.

Like I said, its not a diss at all, just my observation that IF Americans continue to treat boxing like they completely own it, it will lead to stagnation, and that now, more than ever, US fighters like Pavlik need to forget about PPV and "he's not worthy" (probably blame mayweather for the spread of that idea) and actually take on the top Euros and dare I say it, even travel to take their belts.

In the long run as fans this situtation can only be a good thing, because it will lots of great international, probably quite hard to pick fights, but we can only have that if US guys choose to get involved. I really hope they do.

well, you talk as if there was an unstoppable amount of talent coming from Europe as oppossed to America, which is going to sweep the divisions and leae America far behind.

care to name these unstoppable prospects that look so much more likely to be superstars than Berto, Williams, Dawson, Bradley, Dirrell, etc.? Im sure you can name more than a few good prospects from Europe, but I dont really see any Europe guys that are going to be guarenteed p4p fighters or anything...
really, the divisions are up for grabs for any country or area.

[Pullcounter]

I hate saying this, but Boxing needs Pavlik because of the image he has. he's white. if only Arum got on the ball and started shopping him around. get a PR person to put in the work and put Pavlik on network television.

pavlik needs a bigger promotional push from hbo

[abadger]

well, you talk as if there was an unstoppable amount of talent coming from Europe as oppossed to America, which is going to sweep the divisions and leae America far behind.

care to name these unstoppable prospects that look so much more likely to be superstars than Berto, Williams, Dawson, Bradley, Dirrell, etc.? Im sure you can name more than a few good prospects from Europe, but I dont really see any Europe guys that are going to be guarenteed p4p fighters or anything...
really, the divisions are up for grabs for any country or area.

Thats not what I'm saying at all. I don't expect America to get left far behind, but I do expect them to have to get used to the reality of a MORE competitive boxing world. The main point is that "stay at home" boxing is going to have to come to an end for America, because their isn't going to be enough domestic competition to sustain it. Big fights will be more international affairs, but like I say, this will only happen if America joins in.

[Johnny Rebel]

Cotto can also be considered an American, since Puerto Rico is an American common wealth and probably will become the 51st state eventually.

The near future is in Europe and the top Americans are going to have to start traveling here to get the big paydays. We've already seen many Americans coming to Europe to fight and with the popularity of boxing here that trend will only continue.

[Pullcounter]

Cotto can also be considered an American, since Puerto Rico is an American common wealth and probably will become the 51st state eventually.

The near future is in Europe and the top Americans are going to have to start traveling here to get the big paydays. We've already seen many Americans coming to Europe to fight and with the popularity of boxing here that trend will only continue.

puerto ricans consider themselves american 2nd

[Steak]

Thats not what I'm saying at all. I don't expect America to get left far behind, but I do expect them to have to get used to the reality of a MORE competitive boxing world. The main point is that "stay at home" boxing is going to have to come to an end for America, because their isn't going to be enough domestic competition to sustain it. Big fights will be more international affairs, but like I say, this will only happen if America joins in.

let me put it this way. in the next 10 years, it appears that these fighters will be the 'future' of each division, regardless of their country
Heavyweight- Povetkin, Dimitrenko, Boytsov, possibly Haye
Cruiserweight- Johnathon Banks
Light Heavyweight- Dawson
Super Middle-Bute, Kessler, Dirrell
Middle-Pavlik, Greene, maybe Sebastian Sylvester
L Middle-James Kirkland, Joel Julio
Welterweight-Williams, Berto, Cotto
L Welterweight-Bradley, Victor Ortiz
Lightweight-Amir Khan, Juan Diaz, Anthony Peterson, maybe Romanov and Antillon
and Im going to stop, because Mexicans and other Latins+some asians own these categories and everyone knows it.

if you see, most of these guys that are looked at as the future of the division are actually American, other than the lower weight classes, Super Middleweight and Heavyweight. if Im forgetting guys, feel free to add them, but overall America still looks to be overall producing very promising fighters.

what some of you guys really fail to realise is that Americans have always produced built up fighters. and we recongnise it when they have built up records. you see, America is a big place.

lets take Marty Jakubowski as an example. http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php...7022&cat=boxer
he was 37-0 at one point, which looks like a beautiful record. while he actually wasnt a horrible fighter, he wasnt as good as his record suggested. how did he get those 37 wins? well, look at WHERE he fought them. Indiana, Oklahoma, Kentucky...these states are not known for overall good boxers. places like New York are known for good boxers.
If a guy was 37-0 fighting mostly in New York, he would at first sight be considered pretty damn good. if a guy was 37-0 with most his fights in Indiana, Americans will say he has a built up record.

going from one state to another in America(when talking about boxing opponents) can be as drastic as going from one country to another in Europe.