Question about workrate, or lack of.

[deevel79]

Recently we have had two fights where the guy who landed the cleaner, more meaningfull punches have lost due to lack of workrate. Bhop, and Ishe Smith. In both fights, these guys clearly landed the cleaner punches, displayed better defense, yet lost due thier lack of workrate. Then u have Floyd/Oscar I. In this fight, Oscar was clearly the busier fighter, while Floyd was the one landing the cleaner shots, and had a much lower workrate, such as Ishe and Bhop. In my eyes, Floyd won pretty convincingly, but my question is, why do guys like Hopkins get criticized for thier lack of workrate, even though he landed the much cleaner, more meaningfull punches against Joe, yet they claim that Floyd put on a "clinic" against Oscar, even though his workrate was comparible to that of Hopkin's and Ishe's in thier most recent fights? Also i have to note that Oscar landed a few clean hard shots on Floyd, while Julio, and Calzaghe hardly landed anything signifigant on thier opponents. This is not a hate/bait thread, its an honest question. You're feedback is greatly appreciated.

[BmoreBrawler]

answer=Good judges rate aggression highly, as they should . If boxers were more aggressive, the sport wouldnt be as written off as it is today. Some fighters bend the rules and act like its fencing.

[abadger]

I posted about this in answer to one of the many "Hopkins won" threads. I think the examples you use of Floyd Mayweather and Bernard Hopkins (I don't know much about Ishe Smith) are excellent ones for discussing this point.

Basically the difference, between Mayweather's harder, cleaner shots and Hopkins's is the degree to which they are debatable. In a typical mayweather fight, Floyd is so fast and elusive, and his punching so crisp and clean that the judges can be in little doubt as to who actually won. Against De La Hoya for example, sure Oscar threw more, but it was patently clear that he was landing little as Mayweather took his punches on his gloves and arms. Meanwhile Mayweather's potshot jabs seemed to find their mark every time. Basically Mayweather is exceptionally good at that sort of fighting.

In Hopkins Calzaghe, it was simply not the same story. On reflection, and with the benefit of slow motion replays, I would agree that Hopkins landed the harder, cleaner shots. However, those slow motion replays proved to be vital, because Hopkins is no Mayweather and those harder cleaner shots, instead of being thrwon with excellent technique from medium to long range were being thrown almost exclusively when either Hopkins was on his way in to a clinch or Calzaghe was on his way out of one. The result was that for each of those harder cleaner shots, Hopkins was on the receiving end of a flurry of les effective punches, that whilst not all of them landed, some did, and which had the effect of taking the eye from what Hopkins what was doing. Basically the judges would have needed the slow motion to score that fight for Hopkins because in real time they were looking at what appeared to be scrappy fight comprised mostly of exchanges where it was not clearly visible to the naked eye who actually got the better of it, but it was clearly visible who was trying the hardest.

So your description of the Mayweather 'clinic' is an accurate one. That is exactly what Floyd does. he takes an inherently risky style of boxing and executes it so perfectly that the judges are left in no doubt as to who won. Hopkins by contrast takes that same style of boxing and executes it in such a way that it is hard for the judges to see not only who won, but also what exactly Hopkins was doing. They could see what Calzaghe was doing, and that is why he won.

[sterling]

Depends on the judges you dum ass lol not all judges the same for your post i didnt expect a silly question like this.
Calzaghe stumbbled bhop a few times and if bhop hadnt of faked the low blows then he would of got caught more.
No way in hell can u compare mayweather - oscar with bhop - calzaghe and i dnt even know that ishi smith dude what ever lol.
Vegas judges like aggression and like work rate thats why calzaghe won now let it go.....

[MANGLER]

It all depends on the judges. Sometimes they're lookin for meaningful punches and sometimes they favor activity. Depending on who's fightin, they might already have their minds made up as far as who's gonna get the close rounds too.

[deevel79]

Depends on the judges you dum ass lol not all judges the same for your post i didnt expect a silly question like this.
Calzaghe stumbbled bhop a few times and if bhop hadnt of faked the low blows then he would of got caught more.
No way in hell can u compare mayweather - oscar with bhop - calzaghe and i dnt even know that ishi smith dude what ever lol.
Vegas judges like aggression and like work rate thats why calzaghe won now let it go.....

The only dumbass is your father for not pulling out. Now look what your family has to deal with. For the record, im not trying to justify a win, or loss in any of the fights that i mentioned, as i do not care. I was only questioning the workrate for each of the fighters mentioned, along with the outcomes of each of those fights.

[-Hyperion-]

aggressiveness is underrated....sometimes being aggressive makes the other fighter shell up...thus making your aggressiveness somewhat effective...people dont like to see this...

[Silencers]

I posted about this in answer to one of the many "Hopkins won" threads. I think the examples you use of Floyd Mayweather and Bernard Hopkins (I don't know much about Ishe Smith) are excellent ones for discussing this point.

Basically the difference, between Mayweather's harder, cleaner shots and Hopkins's is the degree to which they are debatable. In a typical mayweather fight, Floyd is so fast and elusive, and his punching so crisp and clean that the judges can be in little doubt as to who actually won. Against De La Hoya for example, sure Oscar threw more, but it was patently clear that he was landing little as Mayweather took his punches on his gloves and arms. Meanwhile Mayweather's potshot jabs seemed to find their mark every time. Basically Mayweather is exceptionally good at that sort of fighting.

In Hopkins Calzaghe, it was simply not the same story. On reflection, and with the benefit of slow motion replays, I would agree that Hopkins landed the harder, cleaner shots. However, those slow motion replays proved to be vital, because Hopkins is no Mayweather and those harder cleaner shots, instead of being thrwon with excellent technique from medium to long range were being thrown almost exclusively when either Hopkins was on his way in to a clinch or Calzaghe was on his way out of one. The result was that for each of those harder cleaner shots, Hopkins was on the receiving end of a flurry of les effective punches, that whilst not all of them landed, some did, and which had the effect of taking the eye from what Hopkins what was doing. Basically the judges would have needed the slow motion to score that fight for Hopkins because in real time they were looking at what appeared to be scrappy fight comprised mostly of exchanges where it was not clearly visible to the naked eye who actually got the better of it, but it was clearly visible who was trying the hardest.

So your description of the Mayweather 'clinic' is an accurate one. That is exactly what Floyd does. he takes an inherently risky style of boxing and executes it so perfectly that the judges are left in no doubt as to who won. Hopkins by contrast takes that same style of boxing and executes it in such a way that it is hard for the judges to see not only who won, but also what exactly Hopkins was doing. They could see what Calzaghe was doing, and that is why he won.

Good post. I agree with this.

[sparked_85]

The guy making the fight should be favoured, as opposed to the other guy waiting for that guy to make mistakes.

If you had two guys like that. You don't have a fight. You have Junior Witter vs Corley

[deevel79]

The guy making the fight should be favoured, as opposed to the other guy waiting for that guy to make mistakes.

If you had two guys like that. You don't have a fight. You have Junior Witter vs Corley

Imagine what a Spinks/Mayweather fight would look like in that case! Some fans here prefer capoeira rather than boxing. They seem to enjoy watching a fighter try and avoid confrontation, rather than taking the fight to his opponent.