What if: Roy Jones Jr. vs. Joe Calzaghe Prime for Prime

[Knicksman20]

By "terrible technician," I mean that Roy relied more on his phenominal athletic ability to win fights, rather than solid fundamentals. Muhammad Ali was the same way early in his career. This was best evidenced with Ali, later on his his career, when he was clearly past his prime when he defended his title against Jimmy Young, who was a solid in-fighter from Philadelphia. True, Jimmy's passive aggresive style made him annoying as hell to watch; but he knew some of the finer points of the game that Ali didn't. That was the reason for the controversy of the decision.

This lack of fundamental skills and dependence on natural ability with Jones showed up later in his career against Tarver. Now, while it is true that his rapid weight loss did add to the decline of his reflexes, he was also beginning to lose just a hair off his timing at age 34 anyway. We didn't notice it against Ruiz because John was a much, much slower....as well as much poorer boxer than Jones.


As far as Calzaghe's slapping is concerned.....I thought that was self-evident.

Totally untrue. It seems to be an urban myth or trend to say that about Jones because of his style. The Ice Man would correct you on this. Ice said if I remember correctly that Jones did alot of athletic looking things but it all came back to knowing the fundamentals of boxing. Such as timing, space, & exactly what punch to throw. That's not athletic; that's ring intelligence & Jones had that along with some of the best technical skills ever.

[x-PeROxiDE-x]

In his prime, Jones struggled with counterpunchers like himself (Griffin, Harding) but certainly not the pressure fighters.

Joe is the consumate counterpuncher, he just likes to be aggressive with it.

Roy has shown in recent years that his chin is not what everyone thought it was. Roy's chin was always distinctly average, but in his prime nobody had the speed/skill/guts to expose it. These are 3 qualities that Calzaghe has in abundance, but does he have enough to get to Jones fragile chin? I'm honestly not sure. If he did, it would be a lucky punch that Jones didn't see coming.

I don't think Roy would have the power to KO Joe, although if he could hurt him early and break his heart he could stop him late. That said, although nobody I've ever seen could break Calzaghe's heart, Roy is the only man I would say has even a slight chance.

Prime for prime, it's a tough one to call, and anybody truly objective who knows boxing will tell you the same. They both have the speed and they both have the power, but I think Roy edges this one.

RJJ by SD in a fight that is very close and competitive.

[THE REED]

Totally untrue. It seems to be an urban myth or trend to say that about Jones because of his style. The Ice Man would correct you on this. Ice said if I remember correctly that Jones did alot of athletic looking things but it all came back to knowing the fundamentals of boxing. Such as timing, space, & exactly what punch to throw. That's not athletic; that's ring intelligence & Jones had that along with some of the best technical skills ever.

True.... Kobe Bryant is an amazing athlete... but throw boxing gloves on him and see how well he does with bernard hopkins.

[K-DOGG]

It's not a matter of knowing the finer points of th egame. Ali was just...OLD. Fighters get old and guys like Hopkins, Archie Moore, etc. are the exceptions not the rule.

Simply because they're getting beat doesn't mean they were technically deficient in their primes.

Did Jones rely on athleticism? Sure. In the same way Tito relied on power, etc. He had special talents. But what is overlooked is his intelligence and yes, his technical skills.

I 100% agree with your last comment - EXCELLENT observation. I haven't been on here long but good to chat with you. Jones began slipping way back - perhaps as early as 2001 when Derrick Harmon landed 60% of his power shots against him.

Nice chatting with you,as well; but I would like to point out that part of the reason that Hopkins and Moore lasted as long as they did, at the level they did.....was due to their technical prowness and being that much better than their younger contemporaries.

Boxing, while primarily a young man's game, is a game of skill...the sweet "science", if you will. Those who study and perfect the finer points...like a Hopkins, a Moore, or a James Toney, do well longer....and against a variety of opposistion. How else could Toney, a man who fought a middleweight, have done as well against the largely skillfully-inept heavyweights? Likewise with other old-timers like Harry Greb, or Joe Gans, or Billy Conn?

Knowing the craft means everything.

Ali's heart and toughnesss.....as well as his chin helped him out when his natural ability waned. Jones was not so fortunate.

[K-DOGG]

Totally untrue. It seems to be an urban myth or trend to say that about Jones because of his style. The Ice Man would correct you on this. Ice said if I remember correctly that Jones did alot of athletic looking things but it all came back to knowing the fundamentals of boxing. Such as timing, space, & exactly what punch to throw. That's not athletic; that's ring intelligence & Jones had that along with some of the best technical skills ever.

I'm not gonna speak for Ice; but ask him why Jones never fought Nunn. I could be wrong; but I think Scully would side more with me on this issue. Could be wrong, it's happened before; but I don't think so.

Besides, you're misinterpreting what I said. I never said Jones wasn't highly intelligent in the ring.....I just said he focussed more on his natural ability rather than honing the finer points of the game.

[IMDAZED]

Joe is the consumate counterpuncher, he just likes to be aggressive with it.

Aggressive with his counter-punching? Explain.

Roy has shown in recent years that his chin is not what everyone thought it was. Roy's chin was always distinctly average, but in his prime nobody had the speed/skill/guts to expose it. These are 3 qualities that Calzaghe has in abundance, but does he have enough to get to Jones fragile chin? I'm honestly not sure. If he did, it would be a lucky punch that Jones didn't see coming.

LOL. In 50 some odd fights previous to Tarver, Jones had never been hit on the chin? Ok...I musta missed those hard rights Toney landed, Hopkins landed, Telesco landed, Harmon landed, Del Valle, hell, even Clinton Woods. And the list goes on.

But hey, why let facts get in the way of a good argument? You're on a roll.

I don't think Roy would have the power to KO Joe, although if he could hurt him early and break his heart he could stop him late. That said, although nobody I've ever seen could break Calzaghe's heart, Roy is the only man I would say has even a slight chance.

I don't think Jones stops Calzaghe at all. I don't think he comes close either.

Prime for prime, it's a tough one to call, and anybody truly objective who knows boxing will tell you the same. They both have the speed and they both have the power, but I think Roy edges this one.

Prime for prime, Roy wins convicingly. Joe has NO answer for that kind of speed...none. If he thought Hopkins was throwing a fast, powerful straight right, wait until he meets a prime Jones.

[IMDAZED]

Nice chatting with you,as well; but I would like to point out that part of the reason that Hopkins and Moore lasted as long as they did, at the level they did.....was due to their technical prowness and being that much better than their younger contemporaries.

Boxing, while primarily a young man's game, is a game of skill...the sweet "science", if you will. Those who study and perfect the finer points...like a Hopkins, a Moore, or a James Toney, do well longer....and against a variety of opposistion. How else could Toney, a man who fought a middleweight, have done as well against the largely skillfully-inept heavyweights? Likewise with other old-timers like Harry Greb, or Joe Gans, or Billy Conn?

Knowing the craft means everything.

Ali's heart and toughnesss.....as well as his chin helped him out when his natural ability waned. Jones was not so fortunate.

Ah my friend...exactly.

How did Jones beat Ruiz? Technical skill.

[K-DOGG]

Ah my friend...exactly.

How did Jones beat Ruiz? Technical skill.

....better than Ruiz to be for sure. LOL!!!!

Course, cement footed jab and grab Ruiz wasn't exactly a will-o-the-wisp either.

[THE REED]

Aggressive with his counter-punching? Explain.


LOL. In 50 some odd fights previous to Tarver, Jones had never been hit on the chin? Ok...I musta missed those hard rights Toney landed, Hopkins landed, Telesco landed, Harmon landed, Del Valle, hell, even Clinton Woods. And the list goes on.

But hey, why let facts get in the way of a good argument? You're on a roll.



I don't think Jones stops Calzaghe at all. I don't think he comes close either.



Prime for prime, Roy wins convicingly. Joe has NO answer for that kind of speed...none. If he thought Hopkins was throwing a fast, powerful straight right, wait until he meets a prime Jones.

What about the flush rights JOHN RUIZ 245lbs landed on roy? one after the other, 3 in a row... roy stumbled back for a second and then threw right back at him.... weight draining killed roys legs and ability to accept impact.

And prime roy might not knock joe out with a single punch but he can put together a 20 punch combo nobody human could stand up to.... that is... when he felt like it... as we all know roy is notorious for carrying fighters.

[Knicksman20]

I'm not gonna speak for Ice; but ask him why Jones never fought Nunn. I could be wrong; but I think Scully would side more with me on this issue. Could be wrong, it's happened before; but I don't think so.

Besides, you're misinterpreting what I said. I never said Jones wasn't highly intelligent in the ring.....I just said he focussed more on his natural ability rather than honing the finer points of the game.

I'm not sure why he didn't fight Nunn either. But my point was that alot of people (like yourself) say that Jones relied mostly on his natural talent which just isn't true. Just because he didn't fight like a traditional fighter doesn't mean he lacked those skills. Like Scully said, he did things that looked athletic but it's all fundamentals.