what if: James Toney vs. Joe Calzaghe @ 168 (Prime for prime)

[lazyitis]

Toney nuthuggers are ****in dumb. Barkley was more outclassed vs Henry Maske than Toney.

[CardioMonster]

Can someone tell me what James Toney's best win was?

[abadger]

Can someone tell me what James Toney's best win was?

Iran Barkley!

[CardioMonster]

lol and three years after benn destroyed bark too. Why people like this Toney guy is beyond me. He was outpointed by Montell Griffin for gods sake.

[abadger]

lol and three years after benn destroyed bark too. Why people like this Toney guy is beyond me. He was outpointed by Montell Griffin for gods sake.

I can see why they like him, he put in a great performance against Michael Nunn to win the title, basically waiting all fight for Nunn to gas, getting behind on the cards and the brutally KOing him at the end. Likewise in his fight with Littles he got an awful cut which would have stopped the fight and he basically had a round to get the KO. He did. He also was extraordinarily active as a fighter, fighting once every two months as champ.

However, his greatest wins are perhaps not all they are made out to be, usually listed as Nunn, Barkley and Jirov and he's lost to plenty of fighters too. I like him as a boxer, his naked aggression and old school style could be great to watch, but he is far from being the technical genius and unbeatable fighter he is often made out to be.

[Steak]

I can see why they like him, he put in a great performance against Michael Nunn to win the title, basically waiting all fight for Nunn to gas, getting behind on the cards and the brutally KOing him at the end. Likewise in his fight with Littles he got an awful cut which would have stopped the fight and he basically had a round to get the KO. He did. He also was extraordinarily active as a fighter, fighting once every two months as champ.

However, his greatest wins are perhaps not all they are made out to be, usually listed as Nunn, Barkley and Jirov and he's lost to plenty of fighters too. I like him as a boxer, his naked aggression and old school style could be great to watch, but he is far from being the technical genius and unbeatable fighter he is often made out to be.

kindly name a few boxers that were successful from 160lbs all the way up to heavyweight. you have to have some pretty damn good skills to be able to do that.

Joe Calzaghe wasn't in his prime against Hopkins. He isn't over the hill, but no way is he in his prime anymore. As for your power question, try searching out some videos of Calzaghe before he ****ed his hands up. He landed absolute bombs, which seems odd considering he doesn't punch that hard anymore.

I'm really not sure when Calzaghe's prime even was. Arguably it was against Lacy, but his hands were ****ed at that stage. It might be a possibility that Joe fought in his prime against bums. Did he have his ring experience or defence in the days when he could punch hard though?

I'm not sure who I'd back prime for prime, purely because I'm not sure which Calzaghe would be fighting. One thing is for damn sure though, the Calzaghe who beat Lacy with the hands he had when he was younger punishes Toney badly. If that Calzaghe were possible, he punishes virtually anyone.

goodness, then when is his prime? The Reid fight? thats when he was younger and hit harder.

maybe he had an off night, but even in his best performances he was open to a counter right hand. even Eubank hurt him with it, and while that was only one moment, Toney was better than Eubank ever was, and much better than the past prime Eubank.
The right hand has always been able to land on Calzaghe throughout his career. and Toney was exceptionally good at throwing that punch.

[abadger]

kindly name a few boxers that were successful from 160lbs all the way up to heavyweight. you have to have some pretty damn good skills to be able to do that.

I'm not arguing with you, its pretty incredible to go from MW to HW. As I said, I like Toney, he does have good skills, just not as good as some people make out.

goodness, then when is his prime? The Reid fight? thats when he was younger and hit harder.
maybe he had an off night, but even in his best performances he was open to a counter right hand. even Eubank hurt him with it, and while that was only one moment, Toney was better than Eubank ever was, and much better than the past prime Eubank.
The right hand has always been able to land on Calzaghe throughout his career. and Toney was exceptionally good at throwing that punch.

Not sure the post you quoted was mine, but anyway, yes, Calzaghe can at times be open to a right, but never for very long in a single fight. He always switches it up and makes it more difficult for his opposition to land. Toney would catch him early on I'm sure but if it affected Calzaghe he'd find a way to neutralise it. For a fighter who is so defensively 'open' Calzaghe has been hit relatively little in his career.

I don't really know when Joe's prime was, his best performances have been Lacy and Kessler, but unquestionably he was physically better back in the Reid and Calzaghe days.

Not sure that Toney is 'much better' than Eubank, both guys are pretty gifted, and Eubank gets underrated on here. I'd say that Eubank, in beating Benn and Watson actually beat the better opposition at SMW, but all in all Toney had the better career.

Like I said, I like both Toney and Calzaghe, both great fighters.

[TheGreatA]

lol and three years after benn destroyed bark too. Why people like this Toney guy is beyond me. He was outpointed by Montell Griffin for gods sake.

James Toney had wins over
Michael Nunn (undefeated p4p number 3 at the time, MW & SMW champ),
Reggie Johnson (future MW & LHW champ),
Mike McCallum (former LMW, current MW & future LHW champ),
Iran Barkley (SMW & LHW champ at the time),
Tim Littles (undefeated),
Charles Williams (former LHW champ),
Vassiliy Jirov (undefeated CW champ)
and he also managed to become a top 10 heavyweight at the end of his career with a wide decision win over HW champion Ruiz tainted by steroid-use, a draw with HW champion Hasim Rahman and a split decision loss against future HW champion Sam Peter.


You won't see the kind of class as shown in this fight between McCallum and James Toney very often.


Toney's fight against Montell Griffin.

[The Hammer]

James Toney had wins over
Michael Nunn (undefeated p4p number 3 at the time, MW & SMW champ),
Reggie Johnson (future MW & LHW champ),
Mike McCallum (former LMW, current MW & future LHW champ),
Iran Barkley (SMW & LHW champ at the time),
Tim Littles (undefeated),
Charles Williams (former LHW champ),
Vassiliy Jirov (undefeated CW champ)
and he also managed to become a top 10 heavyweight at the end of his career with a wide decision win over HW champion Ruiz tainted by steroid-use, a draw with HW champion Hasim Rahman and a split decision loss against future HW champion Sam Peter.

He had several losses along the way too, Joe's never lost a fight. Calzaghe never resorted to cheating with steroids.

Not a bad resume, but not great either. James Toney is a one of many overrated American fighters.

[TheGreatA]

He had several losses along the way too, Joe's never lost a fight. Calzaghe never resorted to cheating with steroids.

Not a bad resume, but not great either. James Toney is a one of many overrated American fighters.

I seriously doubt Calzaghe could run the same 'gauntlet' that Toney did and remain undefeated.

James Toney in a span of 3 years fought Sosa, Nunn, R. Johnson, McCallum twice, Barkley, Thornton, Littles, Williams and a prime Roy Jones.
He was already 44-0 when he lost to Jones.

Compare that to Calzaghe's resume which includes Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Brewer, Mitchell, Lacy, Bika, Kessler and Hopkins over the span of 11 years. Calzaghe is now 45-0.

James Toney has 70 wins, 6 losses, one bad loss to Roy Jones at the end of his undefeated run, two losses to Griffin, first one very close, the second one highly controversial, close majority decision loss to journeyman Thadzi which made Toney retire for a short time, two losses to Sam Peter, the first one could've easily gone Toney's way.

Calzaghe deserves credit for being consistent for over a decade and Toney deserves credit for fighting everyone there was to fight.
This is, after all, a man who was willing to move up from CW to fight Lennox Lewis!