Tweet
ESPN.com has a looooooooot of really cool new things happening on their website recently.
They had the "Fight Credential" thing for Marquez-Pacquiao 2, which is essentially a big website just for the fight alone with blogs, pictures, interviews, a round-by-round and post fight stuff.
Then they had that new podcast thing which is cool.
And now they these debates which hopefully they do more of.
-------------------------
Ortiz, 1 p.m.: To be honest, when the fight was first announced, I would have rather asked for change for a dollar in New York City than to wager a prediction. After some thought, though, I've decided to go with the Puerto Rican flamethrower, Cintron.
Ortiz, 1:02 p.m.: Before you say it, I know what you are going to say: You are only as good as your last fight.
Houston, 1:03 p.m.: Yes, that is how the saying goes, and I was surprised at the struggle that Cintron had with Jesse Feliciano, and the way he was getting hit so easily.
Ortiz, 1:04 p.m.: Had Cintron not injured himself, he would have taken Feliciano out of there. Cintron was writhing in pain after the fight; the injury threw a monkey wrench into his gameplan and put him off course, yet he still found a way to win.
Houston, 1:05 p.m.: Hand injuries go with the territory -- and I didn't like the way the fairly ordinary Feliciano was able to push Cintron back and land right hands. If that sort of thing happens on Saturday, Cintron will be in trouble -- more so if Margarito starts fast as he did against Golden Johnson.
Ortiz, 1:06 p.m.: Let's put it this way, Graham: We have a better chance of seeing Haley's Comet today, tomorrow and the day after than Margo has of starting fast against Cintron. I remember talking with Kieran Mulvaney during the Margarito-Johnson weigh-in in New York City last November; Johnson looked like a beaten man before he stepped on the scale. Margarito sensed this and pounced on him. It's a once-in-a-lifetime thing. Margarito's a notoriously slow starter.
Houston, 1:09 p.m.: Not always, Darius. He destroyed Manuel Gomez in the first round and he wiped out Hercules Kyvelos and Andrew "Six Heads" Lewis in two rounds each. I think his trainer will have him pumped up and ready to start fighting from the sound of the bell.
Ortiz, 1:11 p.m.: That feels like centuries ago, and Margarito was a younger, fresher fighter back then. The Gomez stoppage was questionable; Gomez was a slow starter himself and excelled at taking beatings.
Ortiz, 1:12 p.m.: Margarito turned pro in 1994 -- at 16! His face-forward style just doesn't lend itself to longevity.
Houston, 1:15 p.m.: Margarito gets hit, of course -- Joshua Clottey couldn't miss him -- but he just seems such an inherently tough man with great inner strength … I think he will endure what he has to endure to win this fight.
Houston, 1:16 p.m.: I am also worried about Cintron's mental strength, the way he collapsed with a hand injury after stopping Feliciano.
Ortiz, 1:17 p.m.: Ah yes, and I'm just as worried about Margarito's mental strength. Sometimes, he's a windmill of punches and other times he throws punches like he's being charged for each he throws. You don't really know which Margarito you're going to get until he shows up.
Houston, 1:19 p.m.: Over the balance of his career, though, Margarito has been gritty and durable, essentially what I would call a reliable fighter. I don't get a sense of reliability with Cintron.
Ortiz, 1:20 p.m.: Gulp. Neither do I. He tends to cry a lot too.
Ortiz, 1:21 p.m.: Having said that, I believe the loss to Margarito was a learning experience and he's shown improvement since then. A loss isn't the end of the world; after 10 fights, Margarito had two losses on his ledger.
Ortiz, 1:22 p.m.: In regards to Cintron's fragility, reader SubZeroPoet puts it best: Cintron seems to be on the right track if you set aside that near-debacle with Feliciano. But just maybe because of the near-loss to Feliciano, his focus will be optimum.
Houston, 1:24 p.m.: I did not like the way Cintron collapsed on the canvas after the Feliciano fight ended, rolling around as if he had been shot. I have never seen an elite level fighter act that way. Yes, I know his hand must have been hurting, but it was a disturbing thing to see and makes me wonder anew about Cintron's mental strength, should things get really tough versus Margarito.
Ortiz, 1:25 p.m.: OK, you make a good point. But, Margarito has shown deficiencies in his style and actions as well.
Ortiz, 1:27 p.m.: I think reader ejstep summed my sentiments on Margarito's style best: He's not the most technical guy out there, he has a bad habit of starting slow, and he doesn't have the best defense. I knew the Clottey fight would be difficult [for Margarito] because of Clottey's style (he actually reminds me a lot of Winky Wright -- very good defense, high work rate, quick, and not a lot of power -- and can take a punch). Everyone pointed to the hand injury as the reason Clottey didn't win but Margarito had a bad ankle going into the fight. With Williams -- I think it was one of those style nightmare fights for Margarito -- he had struggled before with southpaws and with Williams' height and reach and punch output I actually predicted the upset.
Houston, 1:29 p.m.: Speaking of style deficiencies: Cintron seems fairly easy to hit. Estrada hit him and almost turned the fight around; Margarito is a more formidable fighter than Estrada.
Ortiz, 1:31 p.m.: Very true, but I believe Cintron underestimated Feliciano. Also, I don't think Margarito is as hard-headed as some make him out to be. He was staggered -- and dropped -- by Daniel Santos and he was hurt by the modest-hitting Antonio Diaz years ago as well.
Houston, 1:32 p.m.: Actually he was dropped by Danny Perez, not Santos, and that was a first-round flash knockdown a long time ago.
Ortiz, 1:33 p.m.: Even worse! Perez was a modest puncher.
Houston, 1:35 p.m.: That was a long time ago, Darius, fighters can get caught in the first round. It was a flash knockdown, not a wobbly knockdown, and it happened in 1999. Margarito was still a young fighter then. I don't attach too much importance to it; the fact is, Margarito showed character in coming back to grind out a win.
Houston, 1:37 p.m.: In a long, tough fight, the more durable, grittier guy usually wins -- and that guy seems to be Margarito.
Ortiz, 1:38 p.m.: For some reason, I don't see this being a long, tough fight. I kind of compare this fight to Israel Vazquez's third fight with Oscar Larios.
Houston, 1:38 p.m.: Are you saying Cintron blows out Margarito in three rounds, Darius? That would be a fantastic result.
Ortiz, 1:39 p.m.: No, I mean in terms of where they stand at this point in their careers. Like Vazquez, Cintron has grown since his last loss; he's a bit sturdier, both physically and mentally, and will fight with the mind-set of an avenger. Fight fans remember him more for his bawling after his first fight with Tony than for anything he's done in the ring since then.
Ortiz 1:42 p.m.: I see Cintron starting out fast like Vazquez did against Larios but I'm by no means predicting an early stoppage.
Houston, 1:42 p.m.: I also think Cintron will win the early rounds -- I do see him starting fast -- but I think that Margarito will come on later in the fight. I see Cintron being stronger mentally in this fight and Margarito having to grind out the win.
They had the "Fight Credential" thing for Marquez-Pacquiao 2, which is essentially a big website just for the fight alone with blogs, pictures, interviews, a round-by-round and post fight stuff.
Then they had that new podcast thing which is cool.
And now they these debates which hopefully they do more of.
-------------------------
Ortiz, 1 p.m.: To be honest, when the fight was first announced, I would have rather asked for change for a dollar in New York City than to wager a prediction. After some thought, though, I've decided to go with the Puerto Rican flamethrower, Cintron.
Ortiz, 1:02 p.m.: Before you say it, I know what you are going to say: You are only as good as your last fight.
Houston, 1:03 p.m.: Yes, that is how the saying goes, and I was surprised at the struggle that Cintron had with Jesse Feliciano, and the way he was getting hit so easily.
Ortiz, 1:04 p.m.: Had Cintron not injured himself, he would have taken Feliciano out of there. Cintron was writhing in pain after the fight; the injury threw a monkey wrench into his gameplan and put him off course, yet he still found a way to win.
Houston, 1:05 p.m.: Hand injuries go with the territory -- and I didn't like the way the fairly ordinary Feliciano was able to push Cintron back and land right hands. If that sort of thing happens on Saturday, Cintron will be in trouble -- more so if Margarito starts fast as he did against Golden Johnson.
Ortiz, 1:06 p.m.: Let's put it this way, Graham: We have a better chance of seeing Haley's Comet today, tomorrow and the day after than Margo has of starting fast against Cintron. I remember talking with Kieran Mulvaney during the Margarito-Johnson weigh-in in New York City last November; Johnson looked like a beaten man before he stepped on the scale. Margarito sensed this and pounced on him. It's a once-in-a-lifetime thing. Margarito's a notoriously slow starter.
Houston, 1:09 p.m.: Not always, Darius. He destroyed Manuel Gomez in the first round and he wiped out Hercules Kyvelos and Andrew "Six Heads" Lewis in two rounds each. I think his trainer will have him pumped up and ready to start fighting from the sound of the bell.
Ortiz, 1:11 p.m.: That feels like centuries ago, and Margarito was a younger, fresher fighter back then. The Gomez stoppage was questionable; Gomez was a slow starter himself and excelled at taking beatings.
Ortiz, 1:12 p.m.: Margarito turned pro in 1994 -- at 16! His face-forward style just doesn't lend itself to longevity.
Houston, 1:15 p.m.: Margarito gets hit, of course -- Joshua Clottey couldn't miss him -- but he just seems such an inherently tough man with great inner strength … I think he will endure what he has to endure to win this fight.
Houston, 1:16 p.m.: I am also worried about Cintron's mental strength, the way he collapsed with a hand injury after stopping Feliciano.
Ortiz, 1:17 p.m.: Ah yes, and I'm just as worried about Margarito's mental strength. Sometimes, he's a windmill of punches and other times he throws punches like he's being charged for each he throws. You don't really know which Margarito you're going to get until he shows up.
Houston, 1:19 p.m.: Over the balance of his career, though, Margarito has been gritty and durable, essentially what I would call a reliable fighter. I don't get a sense of reliability with Cintron.
Ortiz, 1:20 p.m.: Gulp. Neither do I. He tends to cry a lot too.
Ortiz, 1:21 p.m.: Having said that, I believe the loss to Margarito was a learning experience and he's shown improvement since then. A loss isn't the end of the world; after 10 fights, Margarito had two losses on his ledger.
Ortiz, 1:22 p.m.: In regards to Cintron's fragility, reader SubZeroPoet puts it best: Cintron seems to be on the right track if you set aside that near-debacle with Feliciano. But just maybe because of the near-loss to Feliciano, his focus will be optimum.
Houston, 1:24 p.m.: I did not like the way Cintron collapsed on the canvas after the Feliciano fight ended, rolling around as if he had been shot. I have never seen an elite level fighter act that way. Yes, I know his hand must have been hurting, but it was a disturbing thing to see and makes me wonder anew about Cintron's mental strength, should things get really tough versus Margarito.
Ortiz, 1:25 p.m.: OK, you make a good point. But, Margarito has shown deficiencies in his style and actions as well.
Ortiz, 1:27 p.m.: I think reader ejstep summed my sentiments on Margarito's style best: He's not the most technical guy out there, he has a bad habit of starting slow, and he doesn't have the best defense. I knew the Clottey fight would be difficult [for Margarito] because of Clottey's style (he actually reminds me a lot of Winky Wright -- very good defense, high work rate, quick, and not a lot of power -- and can take a punch). Everyone pointed to the hand injury as the reason Clottey didn't win but Margarito had a bad ankle going into the fight. With Williams -- I think it was one of those style nightmare fights for Margarito -- he had struggled before with southpaws and with Williams' height and reach and punch output I actually predicted the upset.
Houston, 1:29 p.m.: Speaking of style deficiencies: Cintron seems fairly easy to hit. Estrada hit him and almost turned the fight around; Margarito is a more formidable fighter than Estrada.
Ortiz, 1:31 p.m.: Very true, but I believe Cintron underestimated Feliciano. Also, I don't think Margarito is as hard-headed as some make him out to be. He was staggered -- and dropped -- by Daniel Santos and he was hurt by the modest-hitting Antonio Diaz years ago as well.
Houston, 1:32 p.m.: Actually he was dropped by Danny Perez, not Santos, and that was a first-round flash knockdown a long time ago.
Ortiz, 1:33 p.m.: Even worse! Perez was a modest puncher.
Houston, 1:35 p.m.: That was a long time ago, Darius, fighters can get caught in the first round. It was a flash knockdown, not a wobbly knockdown, and it happened in 1999. Margarito was still a young fighter then. I don't attach too much importance to it; the fact is, Margarito showed character in coming back to grind out a win.
Houston, 1:37 p.m.: In a long, tough fight, the more durable, grittier guy usually wins -- and that guy seems to be Margarito.
Ortiz, 1:38 p.m.: For some reason, I don't see this being a long, tough fight. I kind of compare this fight to Israel Vazquez's third fight with Oscar Larios.
Houston, 1:38 p.m.: Are you saying Cintron blows out Margarito in three rounds, Darius? That would be a fantastic result.
Ortiz, 1:39 p.m.: No, I mean in terms of where they stand at this point in their careers. Like Vazquez, Cintron has grown since his last loss; he's a bit sturdier, both physically and mentally, and will fight with the mind-set of an avenger. Fight fans remember him more for his bawling after his first fight with Tony than for anything he's done in the ring since then.
Ortiz 1:42 p.m.: I see Cintron starting out fast like Vazquez did against Larios but I'm by no means predicting an early stoppage.
Houston, 1:42 p.m.: I also think Cintron will win the early rounds -- I do see him starting fast -- but I think that Margarito will come on later in the fight. I see Cintron being stronger mentally in this fight and Margarito having to grind out the win.
Comment