In all fairness to Joe Calzaghe

[warp1432]

True but Hearns & Leonard are ATG's although they were not the best middleweight's they had managed to go beyond heavyweight and capture titles at light heavy.
Hearn's stature meant he was more suited at middleweight. You've also got very good fighters at 160 that Hagler beat such as Mugabi, Ray Seales, Antuofermo, Minter.
But the wins over Welters were his beat but he also beat EVERYONE his own size. With the exception of Leonard which in my eyes Hagler won but a Prime Hagler would've beaten Leonard with relative ease compared to the actual fight. Thats the thing I liked about Hagler no nonsense come forward and beat the **** outta you. He knew when his best days were over so he retired before he could slide too far.

And trinidad and De La Hoya had titles at Welterweight. Trinidad was 5'11 and crushed William Joppy. I can see someone saying De La Hoya was too small, but Trinidad was a perfect win.

And if he beat everyone his own size, why wasn't he undefeated?

[Ryn0]

And trinidad and De La Hoya had titles at Welterweight. Trinidad was 5'11 and crushed William Joppy. I can see someone saying De La Hoya was too small, but Trinidad was a perfect win.

And if he beat everyone his own size, why wasn't he undefeated?

i meant during his title reign. He lost early on in his career. Joppy was a decent contender but no way a means for justifying Trinidad's success at Middleweight. Hearns and Leonard has proved themselves at higher weights.

[Dynamite Kid]

True but Hearns & Leonard are ATG's although they were not the best middleweight's they had managed to go beyond heavyweight and capture titles at light heavy.
Hearn's stature meant he was more suited at middleweight. You've also got very good fighters at 160 that Hagler beat such as Mugabi, Ray Seales, Antuofermo, Minter.
But the wins over Welters were his beat but he also beat EVERYONE his own size. With the exception of Leonard which in my eyes Hagler won but a Prime Hagler would've beaten Leonard with relative ease compared to the actual fight. Thats the thing I liked about Hagler no nonsense come forward and beat the **** outta you. He knew when his best days were over so he retired before he could slide too far.

With the exception of Leonard which in my eyes Hagler won but a Prime Hagler would've beaten Leonard with relative ease

Hagler got beaten IMO ,its a shame he could'nt except his defeat like a man i mean lets for arguments sake say Hagler did win which i dont think he did was there any need for him to act like such a baby after the decision ,whoever u thought won the fight it was not like Hagler was robbed and Leonard was'nt in the fight and Leonard did not win at least 6 rounds to get at least a draw but for Hagler to react like he was robbed when he gave Leonard the 1st 4/5 rounds is ridiculous ,Hagler new he had lossed the fight thats why the toys came out the pram

Leonard was not Prime either when they foguht lets not forget that

[Ryn0]

With the exception of Leonard which in my eyes Hagler won but a Prime Hagler would've beaten Leonard with relative ease

Hagler got beaten IMO ,its a shame he could'nt except his defeat like a man i mean lets for arguments sake say Hagler did win which i dont think he did was there any need for him to act like such a baby after the decision ,whoever u thought won the fight it was not like Hagler was robbed and Leonard was'nt in the fight and Leonard did not win at least 6 rounds to get at least a draw but for Hagler to react like he was robbed when he gave Leonard the 1st 4/5 rounds is ridiculous ,Hagler new he had lossed the fight thats why the toys came out the pram

Leonard was not Prime either when they foguht lets not forget that

im well aware and i never called it robbery i just had the fight for Hagler. It's hard for a man to accept a close loss like that when he has sat upon the top for so long.

[Pullcounter]

calzaghe's only real claim to greatness is that he hasn't loss in a long long time. But he doesn't have the great opponents to be great.

[warp1432]

Joppy was a decent contender

Decent contender? He was a champion....it's not like he just won a vacant title over a nobody either. He beat the only Japanese Middleweight Champion, who was a pretty good puncher.

And when Joppy hasn't been knocked out in brutal fashion like that, it's a sure sign you belong at Middlweight. Trinidad, like Hearns, was a tall lengthy Welterweight and it was obvious he could have fought at a higher weight. If small 5'7 Carmen Basillo and 5'9 James Toney can compete in higher weights then Trinidad should be able too.

[Vladimir303]

Warp set Ryno straight.


Ryno got a lil too excited trying to **** all over Hopkins's resume.