(Prime) Roy Jones Jr vs Joe Calzaghe

[SkillspayBills]

I have seen those fights, and yes Jones was the better man in both. He beat both Toney and Hopkins fair and square. I think toyed with is a little excessive, but lets agree, Roy was good.

My position is simply that Calzaghe is a better fighter than either Hopkins or Toney, and in particular comes much nearer (without actually getting there) to matching Jones at Jones own game than either of those two. You say yourself Joe is a superb fighter.

Jones might beat Calzaghe, but he wouldn't be able to toy with him, but equally Calzaghe might beat Jones. Roy was not invulnerable, and that has since been proved to be true.

Imagine an all out war (thanks to a previous poster) between Calzaghe and Jones. Can you really be so sure of who wins?

You just said Calzaghe comes CLOSER to Jones than to Roy than Hop or Toney. Than you said he can EQUALLY beat Jones (no problem with that thinking he is a damn good fighter) but you are contradicting yourself here. He is either equal to Roy or close enough to his skills to make the fight tough.
Calzaghe himself would have voted for Roy, he said he wanted nothing to do with him in his prime.

[abadger]

Prime James Toney is on par with Prime Joe Calzaghe in every way shape and form. These are ATG fighters we are talking about here.

I don't agree. I don't consider James Toney to be an ATG. I think ATG and HOF status is handed out too easily to US fighters by a predominantly US boxing media.

Likewise, I don't consider Calzaghe to be a legitimate ATG yet. I just think he is more talented.
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Babimac

[ATFsven]

i am a massive fan of both!
i think roy at some point would have stopped Joe.
now tho Roy would lose a UD

[nvme]

Brilliant thesis.

I'll grade it an R for ******ed. Why don't you debate like a civilized adult, ****face.

As for the question: I was never one to buy into the myth that Jones was unbeatable at super-middle, infact, i thought he was very beatable and someone like Calzaghe would have as good a chance as any.

thats coz ur a co.ck suckin bitach!! like seriously, ur a ***n tool. you actually thought jones was beatable?? u idiot. the only way you could have beat roy was if you were faster or fitter than him. his reflexes were so fast it was like a mongoose vs cobra. ill grade u a D for ***head.

[abadger]

You just said Calzaghe comes CLOSER to Jones than to Roy than Hop or Toney. Than you said he can EQUALLY beat Jones (no problem with that thinking he is a damn good fighter) but you are contradicting yourself here. He is either equal to Roy or close enough to his skills to make the fight tough.
Calzaghe himself would have voted for Roy, he said he wanted nothing to do with him in his prime.

Come on. In terms of Roys particular gifts: power, hand and footspeed, I think he is superior to Calzaghe, but I think Calzaghe is also extremely gifted in those departments.

I think Calzaghe is more gifted in terms of his chin, heart, tactics and adaptability. Roy is gifted in these areas too, except his chin.

Therefore I think that prime for prime they could both beat each other and indeed if they had faced each this is what would have happened.

I am not trying to play word games with you, just assess the respective merits of the fighters.
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Gang **** asian

[SkillspayBills]

I don't agree. I don't consider James Toney to be an ATG. I think ATG and HOF status is handed out too easily to US fighters by a predominantly US boxing media.

Likewise, I don't consider Calzaghe to be a legitimate ATG yet. I just think he is more talented.

Do I look like the US boxing media to you? I am a fan and their opinions weigh just as much as ours (well except the ones who vote fighters in) Cal is an ATG SMW who does infact have more to do to solidify himself among the greats of the past. Toney.........already there is natural skill is as good as almost anyone I have seen, what he lacked was motivation. If you saw a motivated Toney you would see art on display.

[nvme]

I have seen those fights, and yes Jones was the better man in both. He beat both Toney and Hopkins fair and square. I think toyed with is a little excessive, but lets agree, Roy was good.

My position is simply that Calzaghe is a better fighter than either Hopkins or Toney, and in particular comes much nearer (without actually getting there) to matching Jones at Jones own game than either of those two. You say yourself Joe is a superb fighter.

Jones might beat Calzaghe, but he wouldn't be able to toy with him, but equally Calzaghe might beat Jones. Roy was not invulnerable, and that has since been proved to be true.

Imagine an all out war (thanks to a previous poster) between Calzaghe and Jones. Can you really be so sure of who wins?

yes i said joe is a superb fighter. its undeniable that joe is a superb fighter. but i think the toney that roy beat is a lil bit better than joe, and the hopkins that roy beat is a lil bit crapper than joe. but watching both fights, it really did look like roy toyed with both of em.

roy in his prime was just in a class of his own.

[abadger]

Do I look like the US boxing media to you? I am a fan and their opinions way just as much as ours (well except the ones who vote fighters in) Cal is an ATG SMW who does infact have more to do to solidify himself among the greats of the past. Toney.........already there is natural skill is as good as almost anyone I have seen, what he lacked was motivation. If you saw a motivated Toney you would see art on display.

I don't disagree with most of what you are saying. Toney was good, and I haven't seen as much of him as I have seen of Calzaghe, but based on what I have seen, his record, and, as you say, that he lacked motivation, I don't quite think he is up there with the very best.

Hopkins and Calzaghe for example, retained motivation to stay at weight as undefeated for champions for ten year stretches, and I think that is a talent in itself.

Calzaghe, for me is an ATG SMW as of now, and an ATG full stop if he beats Hopkins and retires undefeated. I don't think he HAS to fight again even, as I don't think there is anyone out there likely to beat him.

I respect your opinion though, I think we should just agree to disagree.
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Best Vaporizers

[abadger]

yes i said joe is a superb fighter. its undeniable that joe is a superb fighter. but i think the toney that roy beat is a lil bit better than joe, and the hopkins that roy beat is a lil bit crapper than joe. but watching both fights, it really did look like roy toyed with both of em.

roy in his prime was just in a class of his own.

Thats your opinion. I have mine. Lets leave it at that.
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Arizona Marijuana Dispensary

[MELLY-MEL...]

I am a big fan of joe, but prime for prime at smw i think he loses to Roy! Roy was such a f-in monster it was unreal. i watch some of his prime fights from time to time, and it never fails that i tell myself, cotdayum, he was unreal. bad ass mofo! for me i need a refresher once in a while as it's easy to forget just how talented a guy like jones was!