(Prime) Roy Jones Jr vs Joe Calzaghe

[slicksouthpaw16]

Are you SERIOUS?!! You think Kessler and Lacey (Calz's best two wins) are more of a threat than James Toney (was then #1p4p) and a young higher work rate Hopkins?

Of course they are. Kessler was an beaten 39-0 and had two of the major title belts. Kessler also has more top 10 wins than the greatest super middleweight of all time. Jeff Lacy was the favorite in that fight and was the unbeaten IBF/IBO super middleweight champion.


Bernard Hopkins was a green contender at the time that he fought Jones and he fought limited opposition up until that point. James Toney was weight drained before the Jones fight and had to be hooked to IVs before the fight so he wouldn't pass out. He weighed in at 214 LBS 2 weeks before the fight and damn near killed himself to make the 168 LB limit. I and many others would say yes, Calzaghe has fought and beaten the bigger threats. Calzaghe beat these fighters when they was at 100%, in their prime and at their best.

[Mugwump]

You should also know that he was the most active fighter in boxing at the time, so he was doing it on a regular basis. He did it against Nunn, he did it against Barkely. The difference against Jones... was that it was against Jones.

Toney's boildowns are the stuff of legend, with the Jones one being - as far as I can make out - the most legendary. Suffice to say he didn't do himself any favours in the run-up to that fight and consequently wasn't fighting at peak performance.

[RichCCFC]

Of course they are. Kessler was an beaten at 39-0 and had two of the major title belts. Kessler also has more top 10 wins than the greatest super middleweight of all time. Jeff Lacy was the favorite in that fight and was the unbeaten IBF/IBO super middleweight champion.


Bernard Hopkins was a green contender at the time that he fought Jones and he fought limited opposition up until that point. James Toney was weight drained before the Jones fight and had to be hooked to IVs before the fight so he wouldn't pass out. He weighed in at 214 LBS 2 weeks before the fight and damn near killed himself to make the 168 LB limit. I and many others would say yes, Calzaghe has fought and beaten the bigger threats. Calzaghe beat these fighters when they was at 100%, in their prime and at their best.

This guy is 100% right.

Just because Toney and Hopkins went on to great things after fighting Roy it doesn't mean that he took HUGE risks at the time!

Kessler could go on and dominate SMW-Light Heavy for the next 5 years and only then will we see how good a win for Calzaghe he was.

[K-Nan]

Toney's boildowns are the stuff of legend, with the Jones one being - as far as I can make out - the most legendary. Suffice to say he didn't do himself any favours in the run-up to that fight and consequently wasn't fighting at peak performance.

Yeah, they were legendary. The only reason why the Jones fight is considered the most legendary of them (or why it got any attention at all) is because he lost in that fight.

[SkillspayBills]

I had to poll this one, it was a very good debate.

[Left2body]

Of course they are. Kessler was an beaten 39-0 and had two of the major title belts. Kessler also has more top 10 wins than the greatest super middleweight of all time. Jeff Lacy was the favorite in that fight and was the unbeaten IBF/IBO super middleweight champion.


Bernard Hopkins was a green contender at the time that he fought Jones and he fought limited opposition up until that point. James Toney was weight drained before the Jones fight and had to be hooked to IVs before the fight so he wouldn't pass out. He weighed in at 214 LBS 2 weeks before the fight and damn near killed himself to make the 168 LB limit. I and many others would say yes, Calzaghe has fought and beaten the bigger threats. Calzaghe beat these fighters when they was at 100%, in their prime and at their best.

LOL, Hopkins was green even though he was undefeated (since his first bout) and stayed undefeated after until he faced Taylor. Not to mention that both Hopkins and Jones were both at similar points in there career. Ok, whatever but if Hopkins was green then what was Lacey? A little hypocrisy there perhaps?

That weight drained James Toney did that on a regular basis. Was it healthy, No but he did it on a regular basis and defeated every one of the other 40+ fighters he faced before doing that. Fighters like McCallum, and Nunn.

That weight drained James Toney would wipe his ass with Lacey and Kessler. That version of Hopkins is also a higher caliber fighter than Lacey....by FAR and would also beat Kessler.

[RichCCFC]

LOL, Hopkins was green even though he was undefeated (since his first bout) and stayed undefeated after until he faced Taylor. Not to mention that both Hopkins and Jones were both at similar points in there career. Ok, whatever but if Hopkins was green then what was Lacey? A little hypocrisy there perhaps?

That weight drained James Toney did that on a regular basis. Was it healthy, No but he did it on a regular basis and defeated every one of the other 40+ fighters he faced before doing that. Fighters like McCallum, and Nunn.

That weight drained James Toney would wipe his ass with Lacey and Kessler. That version of Hopkins is also a higher caliber fighter than Lacey....by FAR and would also beat Kessler.

I disagree.

I think Kessler would beat THAT James Toney and THAT Bernard Hopkins. I think they would beat Lacy though. . .

[Left2body]

This guy is 100% right.

Just because Toney and Hopkins went on to great things after fighting Roy it doesn't mean that he took HUGE risks at the time!
Kessler could go on and dominate SMW-Light Heavy for the next 5 years and only then will we see how good a win for Calzaghe he was.

James Toney was the consensus #1p4p fighter in the world. But I guess that isn't as big a risk as Bikka

Arguements can be made why Calz could possible beat Roy (although I believe otherwise).

However NO arguement can be made about Calz having a better resume than Roy Jones Jr.

[P4P Opinion]

Firstly, when were they fighting in their prime? I have to say Roy around 27 and Joe around 34, although they could have never fought at these times.

Secondly, if we're talking about a real match-up that could have happened, you've got to question whether it could have actually have been done without one easily beating the other? In Roy's prime (let's say after he beat Mike McCallum at 27), Joe hadn't even fought Eubank. In Joe's prime (let's say after he beat Lacy at 34), Roy had been recently KO'd by Tarver and Johnson. The only time to make a competitive fight of it would have been when Roy was 34 having just beat Tarver and when Joe was 32 having just beat Mitchell.

In a purely hypothetical sense though, here is how I see it.

Tough one to call.

Both have very padded out resumes, but cannot be denied as all time greats. Roy had the advantage of being an American, meaning he got shots at other big American fighters like Hopkins and Toney, so I don't think we can go down the road of saying 'Roy fought better people'. Yes, he did and he proved his greatness by beating them, but I'd argue that Joe didn't really have the chance until he exposed the then hugely-rated Lacy.

Ability-wise they have some similar gifts: excellent footwork, hand speed, good reactions.

Roy's individual gift: Raw power
Joe's individual gift: Rock solid chin

Roy's individual weakness: weak-ish chin (I don't buy into it being glass)
Joe's individual weakness: brittle hands

The way their individual gifts and weaknesses match up suggests it would be one hell of a fight. Roy had power, but Joe has a great chin. Roy had a weak chin, but Joe doesn't have the hands to expose it. They match up like a dream from the perspective of a fan. Not to mention that they are both aggresssive and aesthetically pleasing to watch.

I'm going to have to say a Roy SD based on the very hypothetical evidence we have. Roy did beat better fighters than Joe has, even if Joe didn't get his chance and that is the only thing I can go on. I think we can rule out a KO or TKO because of Joe's chin and I think it's fair to say that Roy wouldn't have it all his own way out of respect for Joe's undeniable ability. So a SD sounds about fair, although I wouldn't rule out a Joe decision.

We'll never know though and the two of them getting it on today will prove nothing except that Roy is finished.

[RichCCFC]

James Toney was the consensus #1p4p fighter in the world. But I guess that isn't as big a risk as Bikka

Arguements can be made why Calz could possible beat Roy (although I believe otherwise).

However NO arguement can be made about Calz having a better resume than Roy Jones Jr.

He doesn't have a better resume but he could well do when it's over.