Who Can Beat Miguel Cotto?

[oldgringo]

This is why you're among the very best worldwide who debates the sport of Boxing online, OG.. ^^ I like Klitchsko and Haye as examples.. Two missle strikes to my command center.

The only major difference between Cotto and the key guys here that you mention is that they have the kind of one punch power to bail themselves out of disaster, and Cotto does not. This is going to be more than just theory at some point.. Believe me. Cotto does fight like a savage though when he gets dinged, and it was clearly evident against Mosley. Shane was backing off from the damage he was causing because he couldn't live with Cotto's damage-controlled return assault. Cotto hits hard when he's buzzin.

Of course you know that Klitchsko and Haye have already been knocked out (And let's forgive them for that.. They're getting hit by heavyweights!), and Pavlik has a steel chin rep despite having gone down..

Again, I want to take us back to my original point; yes Cotto can be hurt. You pretty much called it a no brainer.. I don't see Klitchsko, Haye, or Pavlik on the P4P list. And let's be honest here, NOBODY has been wobbled more times than Miguel Cotto the last several years. Nobody.

I was making the claim that things are unbalanced. Cotto is the highest ranked - and even out of the guys you gave me; THE most easily hurt. STILL. It's a bad formula, period.. He gets special consideration. Not the other way around.

I brought those other guys into the picture to break this down in a divisional respect. Simply to show that virtually each elite guy in a sample division can and HAS been hurt or stunned at some point in their career, if not knocked out. If we're examining the "pound for pound" list, you will still find names there who have been vulnerable to being hit and hurt. Israel Vazquez, Rafael Marquez, Juan Manuel Marquez, Manny Pacquiao, and yes, Kelly Pavlik (seems to be down around the bottom of that 10 for many).

I could argue that Cotto has the one punch power to completely turn a fight. He and Pavlik are actually quite similar in that they generally wear their opponents down with consistent, hard punching. They finish them after a lot of damage has already been dealt. Pavlik can certainly land the big right hand which puts his opponent on the canvas if the moment strikes, but Cotto can land a crushing body shot which has the same effect. Neither of them are quite like Haye and Wladimir obviously. Those guys can punch on a different level. Yeah, they are getting hit by bigger guys, but with respect to their division, they are vulnerable to being starched just like Cotto is.

I will point to three times in the past 3-4 years where Cotto was in trouble or significantly stunned by punches. Corley, Torres and Judah. All things being equal, I have seen several ELITE guys hurt or stunned the same number of times or more. This is just me being a prick and getting technical.

Hatton - Mayweather, Collazo, Urango (body)

Klitschko - Peter, Williamson (KD), Brewster

Vazquez - Marquez & Gonzalez

Juan Manuel Marquez - Pacquiao & Barrera

Pavlik - Taylor, Zuniga (KD), Zertuche

Even a guy like Pacquiao (who was stopped earlier in his career mind you) has been hurt or stunned fairly recently (Morales/Larios). Hatton was top 10 p4p before being smoked by Floyd.

Not to completely **** off this topic, but I think the bigger issue is how the fighter adapts to the situation, how they deal with being hurt. We all know that Cotto is one of the best there is at recuperating. He has the innate ability to survive in a fight. Going on what we know, I think this makes a stronger case for Cotto succeeding in his future bouts, as opposed to him losing because he can be hurt. The vulnerable guy who knows how to triumph in the face of danger is scarier than the tough guy who doesn't know what to do the first time somebody hurts him.

[RL_GMA]

Whoa, whoa, whoa.. Judah didn't seriously hurt him??

Can we start there?

I think there's a huge difference between being "stunned" and being "hurt"

Cotto took some uppercuts that stunned him in the early rounds.

Zab was "hurt"...and hurt bad to the point where he had to take a knee.





and the innevitable..

[anonymousboxing]

:

Hydration is a significant factor when it comes to punch-resistance.
Anyone who's ever boxed when dehydrated will testify to this.
If you are dehydrated, punches will feel like bricks to your head. You will feel a strong discomfort following every sudden motion of your head, not only punches but also twists and turns, jumps and side to side movements.

Your vision will take longer to settle, your focus will be off and you will lose your ability to think sharp.

Training will also have a great factor in your chin. During hard and intensive training, you force the body to adapt to physical strain.
That part is easy. The hard part is getting yourself to train so hard that you strengthen the mind as well.
This part can only be trained when you think you are done, but you still continue.

And this is why some people get better when they face good opposition;
they "get up" and get motivated enough to train as hard as they can, thus coming into the fights in tip top shape. Mentally and physically.

This can also explain how some people can take punches from the best, but get knocked out by the lesser...

WOW!!!!! We need need more fact-posts like this on the site.
Excellent stuff.


Well maybe uniting the 4 ww belts would defuse alot of our debating.
According to *********.com Cintron intends to unite the 4 belts. Cotto's next on Cintron's hit-list:

http://www.*********.com/*********_2...ZmuepTKLp.html

If Cintron gets past Marg, maybe he should start with an easier bout against Quintana, eh?

[Addison]

I brought those other guys into the picture to break this down in a divisional respect. Simply to show that virtually each elite guy in a sample division can and HAS been hurt or stunned at some point in their career, if not knocked out. If we're examining the "pound for pound" list, you will still find names there who have been vulnerable to being hit and hurt. Israel Vazquez, Rafael Marquez, Juan Manuel Marquez, Manny Pacquiao, and yes, Kelly Pavlik (seems to be down around the bottom of that 10 for many).

I could argue that Cotto has the one punch power to completely turn a fight. He and Pavlik are actually quite similar in that they generally wear their opponents down with consistent, hard punching. They finish them after a lot of damage has already been dealt. Pavlik can certainly land the big right hand which puts his opponent on the canvas if the moment strikes, but Cotto can land a crushing body shot which has the same effect. Neither of them are quite like Haye and Wladimir obviously. Those guys can punch on a different level. Yeah, they are getting hit by bigger guys, but with respect to their division, they are vulnerable to being starched just like Cotto is.

I will point to three times in the past 3-4 years where Cotto was in trouble or significantly stunned by punches. Corley, Torres and Judah. All things being equal, I have seen several ELITE guys hurt or stunned the same number of times or more. This is just me being a prick and getting technical.

Hatton - Mayweather, Collazo, Urango (body)

Klitschko - Peter, Williamson (KD), Brewster

Vazquez - Marquez & Gonzalez

Juan Manuel Marquez - Pacquiao & Barrera

Pavlik - Taylor, Zuniga (KD), Zertuche

Even a guy like Pacquiao (who was stopped earlier in his career mind you) has been hurt or stunned fairly recently (Morales/Larios). Hatton was top 10 p4p before being smoked by Floyd.

Not to completely **** off this topic, but I think the bigger issue is how the fighter adapts to the situation, how they deal with being hurt. We all know that Cotto is one of the best there is at recuperating. He has the innate ability to survive in a fight. Going on what we know, I think this makes a stronger case for Cotto succeeding in his future bouts, as opposed to him losing because he can be hurt. The vulnerable guy who knows how to triumph in the face of danger is scarier than the tough guy who doesn't know what to do the first time somebody hurts him.

Damn good stuff, OG. What can I say.. It's water tight. This debate goes waaay back with us and I haven't seen any holes in your game yet.

You're a monster The force is strong with you, Skywalker..

[Addison]

I think there's a huge difference between being "stunned" and being "hurt"

Cotto took some uppercuts that stunned him in the early rounds.

Zab was "hurt"...and hurt bad to the point where he had to take a knee.





and the innevitable..

Yeah, apparently.. Commentators say a fighter was "hurt" when internet Boxing fans of a particular fighter would prefer to say that their guy was at the very best "stunned." It's a goddamn discrepency is what it is..

Anyways, by the usual definition, within the context of this argument, Cotto was hurt something TERRIBLE in those early rounds. You're trippin.

[-Hyperion-]

I voted only floyd-margo-oscar......but maybe all of the guys in the list will be able to beat cotto after gomez devastates miguelito...

[-Hyperion-]

I voted only floyd-margo-oscar......but maybe all of the guys in the list will be able to beat cotto after gomez devastates miguelito...

so i read that there will be a new video like this each week...cool if they're all gonna be this good...

[Lazy Liberal]

Ty Fields!!!!!