hatton still on your p4p list?

[Njord777]

It's very simple, you are giving Hatton no credit while talking up Pavlik's results. That can only be called biased.

No...that's not biased that's logic in this case. He's been fighting crap because he stepped up to welterweight. Read my ****ing post, man. I admit Hatton is great at 140, sure, but why would I give him credit where it isn't due? Pavlik had a break-out year and Hatton tried, unsuccessfully, to move up in weight by fighting limited opposition..and then getting KOed.


OH- and let me add that my sole point is to explain to you how Hatton is NOT in by top 10 pound for pound and Pavlik is.

Overall, I see no reason to rip on Ricky but you're MAKING me compare the two by saying, "You're an idiot to have Pavlik at #6 and Hatton not on the list"

[Parody]

ROUND ONE: Hatton-Collazo vs. Pavlik- Zertuche.
Sure, Collazo had the WBA title..but..I'm pretty sure that was vacated by Mayorga...and I never rated Rivera too highly so I'm not sure how that makes his resume superb- and it was a poor showing, man. Try to remember Hatton almost got knocked out and there are people out there who think Collazo was robbed. That began the talk of Hatton moving down. That's how poor he looked.

Compare that to Pavlik's fight with Zertuche- a limited fighter, yes, but a stunning KO. I mean..come on...that's a highlight reel knockout.

ROUND ONE ANALYSIS: So it's a highlight reel performance for Pavlik and a shameful, close win for Hatton.

ROUND ONE WINNER: Pavlik.

ROUND TWO: Hatton-Urango vs. Pavlik-Miranda.

Juan Urango LOST the Naoufel Ben Rabah fight. That was a poor, poor call by the judges. Watch that fight again- the crowd booed. Urgano was a limited fighter who had been given the gift of a belt. Nothing more. Add to that fact that, against a very bland, fringe contender- Hatton did NOT look that great. He had a cold supporters say. Alright then.

Meanwhile Kelly Pavlik takes on power punching Edison Miranda in a fight people were excited about. It was being billed as a slug fest, and tons of people were picking Miranda- I think I did. He had proved his power and his only loss was to a solid, solid champion in Arthur Abraham...and Kelly cleaned up. He took that fight and then knocked Miranda the **** out.

ROUND TWO ANALYSIS : A 'W' for Hatton, love the guy, but not much more. He fought a nobody and won...and didn't look amazing. Meanwhile Pavlik took what many saw as a dangerous fight against a real challenge and KOed him- yet again. Add to Pavlik's highlight reel.

ROUND TWO WINNER: Kelly Pavlik.

ROUND THREE: Hatton-Castillo vs. Pavlik-Taylor

ROUND THREE ANAYLSIS: So, here we go, Hatton steps up- but against an aging Jose Luis Castillo that many worried was washed up after his epic battles with Corrales. At the end of the night this is Hatton's best claim to fame for the year - but it's against a fighter many think is near the end of the road, or at least past his prime.

Meanwhile Kelly Pavlik takes on the undefeated, linear middlweight champion of the world- Jermain Taylor. He beat Hopkins twice, fought to a draw against a great fighter in Winky Wright and was fighting solid, if small, opposition. In a fight of the year candidate Pavlik gets up from the brink of disaster, off the canvas, to score a brutal KO- of the undefeated middlweight champion.

ROUND THREE ANALYSIS: Are you effing kidding me?

ROUND THREE WINNER: Come on. Get serious. Are you serious? Pavlik.


Yes, then Hatton fought the pound for pound champion...but that's not adding anything to his resume because he got KNOCKED OUT. Meanwhile, Pavlik ends the year as crowned champion at 160.

SO, yes, Kelly Pavlik accomplished more than Hatton. He gets to be #6 pound for pound on my list and Hatton, by virtue of so many other deserving fighters needing a spot, doesn't even make it.

Oh, and let me add, yet again, that I'm not even a huge Pavlik fan. I think he has tons to prove yet...may lose the rematch...and did NOT make it into my top 5 pound for pound.

Anyone care to back me up here?

Wow. You have Pavlik at #6 for beating an overrated fighter in Edison Miranda who got beaten by Arthur Abraham, BTW I picked Pavlik to KO Miranda when most on these boards thought Miranda would win, and then Beating Jermain Taylor who many people believe got gift decisions. Apart from Hatton being a two weight champion he beat a much bigger name is Tszyu and Castillo, out of prime or not people did'nt expect Hatton to have KO/TKO victories over them. Hatton's accomplishments are far better whether you like it or not and btw this is coming from a Kelly Pavlik fan and a guy who does'nt like Hatton very much as a fighter.

[Mozza]

No...that's not biased that's logic in this case. He's been fighting crap because he stepped up to welterweight. Read my ****ing post, man. I admit Hatton is great at 140, sure, but why would I give him credit where it isn't due? Pavlik had a break-out year and Hatton tried, unsuccessfully, to move up in weight by fighting limited opposition..and then getting KOed.

I did read your post and I noticed that any trace of a compliment towards Hatton was weighted with the word 'but' somewhere in the vicinity. You went out of your way to take credit away from Hatton and award it to Pavlik which was clever in that it made your argument seem strong but showed that you had waved goodbye to fairness and reason.

[Njord777]

I did read your post and I noticed that any trace of a compliment towards Hatton was weighted with the word 'but' somewhere in the vicinity. You went out of your way to take credit away from Hatton and award it to Pavlik which was clever in that it made your argument seem strong but showed that you had waved goodbye to fairness and reason.

It's explaining why Hatton is out of my pound for pound list and Pavlik is in. So of course I'm explaining the negatives- I.E. why Hatton is not on the list- compared to the positives- I.E. why Pavlik IS on this list.

That's the issue..so..?

[Njord777]

Wow. You have Pavlik at #6 for beating an overrated fighter in Edison Miranda who got beaten by Arthur Abraham, BTW I picked Pavlik to KO Miranda when most on these boards thought Miranda would win, and then Beating Jermain Taylor who many people believe got gift decisions. Apart from Hatton being a two weight champion he beat a much bigger name is Tszyu and Castillo, out of prime or not people did'nt expect Hatton to have KO/TKO victories over them. Hatton's accomplishments are far better whether you like it or not and btw this is coming from a Kelly Pavlik fan and a guy who does'nt like Hatton very much as a fighter.

No, I think Pavlik has accomplished more recently than Hatton- I mean last three or four fights weigh VERY heavily when considering a pound for pound list. I'm not going to keep Hatton on my list because he beat Tszyu. I like Ricky...but he's not been fighting impressive opposition recently where as Pavlik has been stepping up.

Holy ****.

[Mozza]

OH- and let me add that my sole point is to explain to you how Hatton is NOT in by top 10 pound for pound and Pavlik is.

Overall, I see no reason to rip on Ricky but you're MAKING me compare the two by saying, "You're an idiot to have Pavlik at #6 and Hatton not on the list"

Well actually you did rip Hatton before I said anything on the matter. I said it was ridiculous to have Pavlik at number six while at the same time saying Hatton can't get on because he fought unimpressive fighters. You may think there is a vast difference between guys like Miranda, Zertuche and Taylor compared to Hatton's opposition but I don't.

[Parody]

No, I think Pavlik has accomplished more recently than Hatton- I mean last three or four fights weigh VERY heavily when considering a pound for pound list. I'm not going to keep Hatton on my list because he beat Tszyu. I like Ricky...but he's not been fighting impressive opposition recently where as Pavlik has been stepping up.

Holy ****.

The funny thing is Taylor was ranked #8 or #9 in the P4P List prior to his fight with Pavlik and many people believed he was getting gift decisions in the wright and hopkins fights, yet you put him at #6.

Holy ****...

[Njord777]

I'm defending my list - nothing more.

Fine. You say you rate Hatton's recent opposition on the same level as Pavlik's recent opposition. I'll let you have that even though I don't agree.

Hatton looked poor against Collazo, almost got knocked out, then looked sluggish and awkward against Urango.

Meanwhile Pavlik looked impressive against, and you say they're on the on the same level, Zertuche and Miranda.

The real test, though, is that Kelly Pavlik is now the linear middleweight champion of the world....he KNOCKED OUT...Jermain Taylor- while Hatton GOT KNOCKED OUT.

Am I saying I like Hatton more than Pavlik? No. Am I saying, overall, Pavlik is a better fighter than Hatton? No.

What am I saying? I am saying Hatton does not deserve to be in the top 10 pound for pound and Pavlik does- for now.

Pavlik could lose to Taylor and Hatton could start cleaning up at 140...then guess what my list would look like? Right. I'd credit them each for what they'd done and Hatton's stock would climb while Pavlik's would fall.

No. Hatton, as of now, does not belong in the top 10. Kelly Pavlik, as of now, does.

[Njord777]

The funny thing is Taylor was ranked #8 or #9 prior to his fight with Pavlik and many people believed he was was getting gift decisions in the wright and hopkins fights, yet you put him at #6.

Holy ****...

Taylor wasn't helping himself fighting smaller men, but he was fighting some solid fighters. I was critical of Taylor for fighting small men, but the men he was fighting were still of a decent caliber- you said it yourself; on most lists he was still a top 10 pound for pound fighter. How did Kelly Pavlik get higher than him on the list? Many reasons. One is the way in which Kelly has been winning. The Miranda fight was a toss up, as far as prediction go, and he had a great showing. Further, some men- like Winky Wright (Draw to Taylor loss to Hopkins) have slide down the rankings. Therefore, at the end of the day, Kelly Pavlik, by KOing his competition and becoming Middleweight champion, is top 10 pound for pound.

Am I really having to explain why the middleweight champion of the world is ranked higher than someone who just got KOed?

I like Ricky...but...goddamn. Let him earn his place back where he belongs at junior welterweight.

[Mozza]

Am I really having to explain why the middleweight champion of the world is ranked higher than someone who just got KOed?

It's an interesting talking point though. When I think about my P4P lists I always think of Kessler ahead of Pavlik but it is hard to justify because even though I think Kessler would win he is coming off a competitive but clear loss to Calzaghe and Pavlik is coming off a convincing KO of Taylor.