Cassius Clay V Rocky Marciano

[moofo]

Rocky could land a few shots, especially to the body, but nothing flush to Ali's head. I agree that Marciano's stamina was unbelievable but Ali was at his best in the last few rounds as well. My thinking is that if Jersy Joe Walcott was beating Marciano through 13 rounds, Ali could do it for 15.

I understand your thinking and am not saying Ali wouldn't win.
I just think it is short sighted of some people to discount Rocky has having little or no chance at all especially with his Style and strength.
Rocky wouldn't just hit guys to the body either , he would hit them in the arms chest throat wherever and this is why most of his opponents couldn't handle him because he eventually wore them down.
As far as I remember didn't he break bones in one guys arms?
You have to remember he was only ever down twice and in both instances back on his feet unfazed.
Personally I think this would have been a great fight and a lot closer than some people think.
If they had been fighting in the same era I'd bet they would have met more than once.
One thing that is a fact is...we will never know.

[Silencers]

I understand your thinking and am not saying Ali wouldn't win.
I just think it is short sighted of some people to discount Rocky has having little or no chance at all especially with his Style and strength.
Rocky wouldn't just hit guys to the body either , he would hit them in the arms chest throat wherever and this is why most of his opponents couldn't handle him because he eventually wore them down.
As far as I remember didn't he break bones in one guys arms?
You have to remember he was only ever down twice and in both instances back on his feet unfazed.
Personally I think this would have been a great fight and a lot closer than some people think.
If they had been fighting in the same era I'd bet they would have met more than once.
One thing that is a fact is...we will never know.

I think it was Roland LaStarza that had to get surgery on both arms because Rocky punched them so hard.

I understand what you're saying as well. I'm not saying it's a mismatch or a blowout for Ali, but I don't see him losing this fight. He definitely would not KO Rocky, but I think he wins a UD.

It's a shame we'll never really know.

[Ryn0]

The story goes that they chose not to use head shots but could hit to the body.
Also Rocky had to wear a wig to try look the part even though he was in his 40's at the time....Ali kept flipping this wig off and the Rock got fed up and the story goes Rocky floored Ali with a body shot which took him a good few minutes to recover from.
I think Marciano would have had every chance against Ali because there was another small Heavyweight called Smokin Joe who dealt with him in his prime.
Joe Louis admitted on record that at any time in his career the Rock would have beat him as well.
People always underestimate Rocky due to his size when the fact is it was never really a problem for him.
He had exceptional strength for his stature.
And a fine pair of whiskers too.

they are similar in stature as is tyson but both would have outweighed him by ridiculous amounts today marciano would be a light-heavy

[SkillspayBills]

Rocky had the will of a tiger but Cassius, in his prime, would have picked him apart.

[Benny Leonard]

If Smokin Joe Frazier could Hit Ali then Believe me so could Rocky Marciano.
And he would never have taken a backward step or tired like George Foreman did.

Ali wasn't the same fighter when he came back from the layoff. His stamina wasn't the same, which he admitted, so instead of dancing around for the full fight, he had to sit on the ropes, which is also why Frazier did good against him.

Use Ali prior to the 3+ year layoff, and it is a different fight.

Also, although Ali wasn't in his prime anymore, he came back to quick when he fought Frazier, which is another reason he lost the first fight...but even still, I give Frazier credit, he gave Ali a hellova fight and pushed Ali further than he ever was before.

In addition, Frazier was bigger than Rocky.

[moofo]

they are similar in stature as is tyson but both would have outweighed him by ridiculous amounts today marciano would be a light-heavy

Most of Marcianos opposition weighed around the 200 pound mark which was no different to Ali.

Size would not have been an issue.

Ali's heaviest weight was 236 at the end of his career.

[Benny Leonard]

I understand your thinking and am not saying Ali wouldn't win.
I just think it is short sighted of some people to discount Rocky has having little or no chance at all especially with his Style and strength.
Rocky wouldn't just hit guys to the body either , he would hit them in the arms chest throat wherever and this is why most of his opponents couldn't handle him because he eventually wore them down.
As far as I remember didn't he break bones in one guys arms?
You have to remember he was only ever down twice and in both instances back on his feet unfazed.
Personally I think this would have been a great fight and a lot closer than some people think.
If they had been fighting in the same era I'd bet they would have met more than once.
One thing that is a fact is...we will never know.

You have to be able to catch the young Ali. Rocky is a plotter, not a sprinter like Dempsey and Tyson. If it is the Ali that was after the layoff, the one who fought Frazier, I agree, Rocky would be a tough fight.

Rocky was hurt at least in the Moore fight, I cannot remember what he said about Walcott. When Moore hit him, he lost his legs and went straight down. The Moore fight he admitted to being hurt and the lights went out for a split second. When he got up, he said he was still stunned, but not "groggy." This is where Rocky's heart came into play, he weathered the storm.

[moofo]

Ali wasn't the same fighter when he came back from the layoff. His stamina wasn't the same, which he admitted, so instead of dancing around for the full fight, he had to sit on the ropes, which is also why Frazier did good against him.

Use Ali prior to the 3+ year layoff, and it is a different fight.

Also, although Ali wasn't in his prime anymore, he came back to quick when he fought Frazier, which is another reason he lost the first fight...but even still, I give Frazier credit, he gave Ali a hellova fight and pushed Ali further than he ever was before.

In addition, Frazier was bigger than Rocky.

So you are saying Ali was in his prime around 65-67 ?
Henry Cooper only weighed 188 pounds and gave Ali plenty of trouble as well as the infamous Knockdown.
Well IMO if a mediocre fighter like Cooper of similar weight to Marciano can cause Ali trouble then I am damned sure Rocky could have given him a lot more.
Remember one thing here......
I am not saying Ali WOULD NOT have won.
But I am also saying that you CANNOT say that Rocky COULD NOT have won either.

[Benny Leonard]

Most of Marcianos opposition weighed around the 200 pound mark which was no different to Ali.

Size would not have been an issue.

Ali's heaviest weight was 236 at the end of his career.

Ali was able to go up and down in weight based on his opponent, but by the time he was 24, his body kept the weight and he was 212. He was becoming a full grown man at this point, which is why he looked amazing against Williams.

Ali had a bigger frame than any of Rocky's most notable fighters.

[Benny Leonard]

So you are saying Ali was in his prime around 65-67 ?
Henry Cooper only weighed 188 pounds and gave Ali plenty of trouble as well as the infamous Knockdown.
Well IMO if a mediocre fighter like Cooper of similar weight to Marciano can cause Ali trouble then I am damned sure Rocky could have given him a lot more.
Remember one thing here......
I am not saying Ali WOULD NOT have won.
But I am also saying that you CANNOT say that Rocky COULD NOT have won either.

We label it "prime" but the truth is, and Collin Hart and Dundee said this, we never saw Ali's true prime.

Ali's best was up until his exile, but it wasn't until around Williams that he was really coming together with size, strength, speed, power, and movement.

Cooper was 1963 and it was one punch that gave him trouble, but nothing else, which is why came right out and smacked him around winning a TKO. He won the rematch in easier fashion. Ali learned his lesson from that fight, which helped him in the Liston fight.


And yes, I still think Rocky would have gave him fits, even the Wiliams-Ali.



There were fighters that troubled Rocky as well.



And for the record, Ali did say Marciano would give him trouble and be a tough fight. Although I'm not sure if he was talking about his current state, which was after his layoff, or the one prior.