Who was the best: Ali or Louis?

[Guest]

[QUOTEIn his prime, Joe Louis was rocked by Schmeling, Braddock, Galento (wtf?), Buddy Baer, Billy Conn (who was MUCH smaller, much lighter hitting).

I don't know if you count the first Walcott fight as a prime Bomber- but the facts stand. Louis was a good puncher, but he was VERY susceptible. In Ali's prime he had nothing more than a couple of flash knockdowns.

Both in terms of competition and skill, Ali was the better fighter.][/QUOTE]


In 72 fights, he was ko'ed or tko'ed twice, exactly one more time than Ali.
Joe fought who he could, as Ali did.

They are a close 1 and 2, I give the nod to Louis with them gaudy 55 ko's..

JReckoning

[RightHandLead]

The term was invented because Louis was so dominant he made everyone look like a bum. Just like Roy Jones.

And I did say there were some bums in his record. But I also listed some guys who weren't.

And if you check my earlier post, I said it wasnt his fault that he fought bums like Tony Gallento. But it was questionable when these bums rocked him and knocked him down. Even Billy Conn rocking him (though a great fighter) raises questions about how he would have handled any of the better fighters, even in th past. Sorry, but in a head-to-head match-up, Louis just doesn't fare well against ANY of the top 10 ATG HWs. Too small, too susceptible. And I'm not saying that it's a mark against him, but it is something to consider when you want to go as far as to say that he's the better fighter than Muhammad Ali (not saying you said that).

[RightHandLead]

[QUOTEIn his prime, Joe Louis was rocked by Schmeling, Braddock, Galento (wtf?), Buddy Baer, Billy Conn (who was MUCH smaller, much lighter hitting).

I don't know if you count the first Walcott fight as a prime Bomber- but the facts stand. Louis was a good puncher, but he was VERY susceptible. In Ali's prime he had nothing more than a couple of flash knockdowns.

Both in terms of competition and skill, Ali was the better fighter.]

In 72 fights, he was ko'ed or tko'ed twice, exactly one more time than Ali.
Joe fought who he could, as Ali did.

They are a close 1 and 2, I give the nod to Louis with them gaudy 55 ko's..

JReckoning[/QUOTE]

Please read where I said IN HIS PRIME. Ali was rock solid during his best years- even in his not-so-best, post exile years. Joe Louis however, was always a target. Ali was never KO'd in his prime.

[Guest]

The only thing I have against your suseptible comment is that he won just about all of those fights.

JReckoning

[RightHandLead]

The only thing I have against your suseptible comment is that he won just about all of those fights.

JReckoning

As he should have. My point is that he was fighting far lesser opposition alot, and STILL getting hurt. What I see in this thread is people trying to say that he got rocked by these guys because they were so great. Not all of them were, though. Most of them weren't actually.

[mrpain81]

To guys who weren't noteworthy (wasn't his fault)... But these 'Bums of the month' still managed to rock him every now and then.

Ali was Dropped by Henry Cooper, and alot of people thought he lost to Doug Jones.

[Guest]

[QUOTE][/As he should have. My point is that he was fighting far lesser opposition alot, and STILL getting hurt. What I see in this thread is people trying to say that he got rocked by these guys because they were so great[QUOTE]

I wouldn't argue that point at all. In my mind they are a close 1-2, and I can see why you have Ali ahead, Foreman, Frazier, Shavers, and a ton of others were huge, huge punchers that Ali beguiled.. for sure.

JReckoning

[TheGreatA]

Louis' boxing skills are unquestionable and as far as achievements go he has to be rated up there.

He does have a suspect chin and he comes from an era where heavyweights were smaller though he totally DESTROYED the 6'6 260 pound Carnera (who wasn't very good I admit).

Head-to-head he might not beat every top HW but he wouldn't be outclassed by anyone either. Perhaps beaten by their physical advantages like power and speed which Louis had trouble with.

[RightHandLead]

Ali was Dropped by Henry Cooper, and alot of people thought he lost to Doug Jones.

Watched the Doug Jones fight (as I'm sure you did). People put too much into the fact that he was doing way better than they expected. He didn't win that fight.

The Cooper fight showed Ali's recuperative skills. He was up at 3. He didn't get KO'd like Louis did against Schmelling in the same sort of situation.

[Jim Jeffries]

Ali was Dropped by Henry Cooper, and alot of people thought he lost to Doug Jones.

The famous old "torn glove" incident. Ali really had his bell rung by Cooper in that first fight. Had it been early in the round, he would have been knocked out. Dundee gave him some extra time to recuperate, along with some smelling salts, by tearing the glove wide open so that they would have to go back to the dressing room to get a replacement glove.