Muhammad Ali vs Tommy Hearns?

[slicksouthpaw16]

Send me the link to that discussion, I really doubt you can because it doesn't exist. How would Hagler know Leonard had judges paid off?

We are no longer discussing the matchup, just this point. I think you twisted **** around to try and win the argument.

that was on a panel discussion on ESPN so there is no link. i can get you any other link. why not how bad Toney was weight drained or any other thing you think im lying about. i'll try to find the Hagler/Leonard link but i doubt there is one. (watch Pete say ''thats becuse it didn't happen'')

[TheGreatA]

Hearns KO1 Ali
Toney UD 120-108 Jones

Seriously Jones was just a baaaaaaaad match-up for Toney. Toney didn't like to move forward (in fact, he didn't like to use his feet at all), he liked to counter-punch but Roy Jones was a bit too unorthodox and elusive for that.

Not saying Toney would be made to look like a fool like he was that night if he was at his best but I doubt he could beat Jones anyway.

[slicksouthpaw16]

Hearns KO1 Ali
Toney UD 120-108 Jones

Seriously Jones was just a baaaaaaaad match-up for Toney. Toney didn't like to move forward (in fact, he didn't like to use his feet at all), he liked to counter-punch but Roy Jones was a bit too unorthodox and elusive for that.

Not saying Toney would be made to look like a fool like he was that night if he was at his best but I doubt he could beat Jones anyway.

you are a good poster so i will actually take you seriously. 1, i didn't say that Hearns would out box Ali at all, Pete made that up. and did the Toney that fought Barkley look like he was in the same shape when he fought Jones? and im not even sure if he would have beaten Jones if he came in shape, but im 100% sure that he would have put up a much better fight and lost by at least split decision. people are under estimating prime Toney, he was a force to be reckoned with.

[Sweet Pete]

you are a good poster so i will actually take you seriously. 1, i didn't say that Hearns would out box Ali at all, Pete made that up. and did the Toney that fought Barkley look like he was in the same shape when he fought Jones? and im not even sure if he would have beaten Jones if he came in shape, but im 100% sure that he would have put up a much better fight and lost by at least split decision. people are under estimating prime Toney, he was a force to be reckoned with.

A split decision? Nah, he would've put up a better fight, but the fact remains, as said above, Toney didn't like movement, he liked to counter punch, and against someone as unpredictable, unorthodox, and just(and here's the main point) as fast as Jones, being a stationary counter-puncher is about the worst thing to be. Even Hopkins, who had movement, wouldn't have beaten Jones prime for prime. No way Toney does. At his best, against brawlers and straight up boxers, Toney was awesome, but this style would've always given him fits. You can't even fight to a split decision if you're being stationary and getting caught more than you catch the other guy.

Also, you didn't say "Hearns would outbox Ali" but you said he was impossible to outbox, and you also said that boxing ability has nothing to do with size, so am I not to take that to mean you think Hearns outboxes Ali?

[slicksouthpaw16]

A split decision? Nah, he would've put up a better fight, but the fact remains, as said above, Toney didn't like movement, he liked to counter punch, and against someone as unpredictable, unorthodox, and just(and here's the main point) as fast as Jones, being a stationary counter-puncher is about the worst thing to be. Even Hopkins, who had movement, wouldn't have beaten Jones prime for prime. No way Toney does. At his best, against brawlers and straight up boxers, Toney was awesome, but this style would've always given him fits. You can't even fight to a split decision if you're being stationary and getting caught more than you catch the other guy.

Also, you didn't say "Hearns would outbox Ali" but you said he was impossible to outbox, and you also said that boxing ability has nothing to do with size, so am I not to take that to mean you think Hearns outboxes Ali?

i only said that Roy could not out box Hearns, thats it. i did not say that he was impossible to out box either. i dont even think i mentioned Ali. well i respect your opinion. If you think that Roy would have beaten Toney, fine, Roy is a great fighter and we all know it. i just think that Toney would have taken it. he showed what he could do if he would have came in shape. he did well when ever he actually would fight instead of staring at him but, this is my opinion. i just cant give Roy full credit for beating a fighter who was hospitalized and weighing in about 70 pounds past his weight 2 weeks before the fight. He did not beat the real James Toney.

[Parody]

Roy would stop Hearns at 160. I love the fact people say Roy has a weak chin when the fact is Roy only lost when age caught up to him. So you are trying to tell me Glen Johnson is better than a Young Hopkins, Toney, Virgill Hill, Mike McCallum, etc.?

[Sweet Pete]

i only said that Roy could not out box Hearns, thats it. i did not say that he was impossible to out box either. i dont even think i mentioned Ali. well i respect your opinion. If you think that Roy would have beaten Toney, fine, Roy is a great fighter and we all know it. i just think that Toney would have taken it. he showed what he could do if he would have came in shape. he did well when ever he actually would fight instead of staring at him but, this is my opinion. i just cant give Roy full credit for beating a fighter who was hospitalized and weighing in about 70 pounds past his weight 2 weeks before the fight. He did not beat the real James Toney.

Well, to each his own, but I just don't get how you think Toney was doing well at any point during the fight, I think you were just rooting for Toney sohard that any minor thing he did registered big with you.

And you said the only people that could beat Hearns were people who chose to brawl with him or fight him, noone outboxes him. Either way, your point about size not mattering was way off.

But we'll end it here if you wish.

[slicksouthpaw16]

Roy would stop Hearns at 160. I love the fact people say Roy has a weak chin when the fact is Roy only lost when age caught up to him. So you are trying to tell me Glen Johnson is better than a Young Hopkins, Toney, Virgill Hill, Mike McCallum, etc.?

you should know that styles makes fights. Glen Johnson was bringing smart pressure and walking through Roys shots. thats the way to beat a speed fighter. Hopkins, McCallum, Hill, or Toney did not bring pressure on Roy and make him fight. its obvious
even though Roy was a bit past his prime, it happened and thats the way to beat a speed fighter.

[Parody]

you should know that styles makes fights. Glen Johnson was bringing smart pressure and walking through Roys shots. thats the way to beat a speed fighter. Hopkins, McCallum, Hill, or Toney did not bring pressure on Roy and make him fight. its obvious

So are you saying that Glen Johnson always had the style to beat Roy Jones, even when Roy was in his prime? So are you saying Mike "The body snatcher" McCallum was'nt a smart pressure fighter?

I'm sorry to say this but Roy Jones at 160 pounds would stop Hearns no doubts.

[Sweet Pete]

you should know that styles makes fights. Glen Johnson was bringing smart pressure and walking through Roys shots. thats the way to beat a speed fighter. Hopkins, McCallum, Hill, or Toney did not bring pressure on Roy and make him fight. its obvious

The way to beat Ali was shown in his fight with Trevor Berbick. The way to beat Ray Leonard was shown in his fight with Camacho. The way to beat Duran was shown in his fights with Vinny Paz. The way to beat Ray Robinsonm was shown in his fight with Joey Archer. The way to beat Whitaker was shown in his fight with Borjourquez. Or maybe they were just past their primes, kinda like Jones was when Johnson beat him.

That was not smart pressure, that was constant hounding of a fighter who no longer had the abilities he used to. Watch Roy Jones vs Brant Brannon if you wanna see how a prime Jones deals with that kind of fighter.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=r6d0WOk-QuU

And yeah, Hopkins brought constant pressure, have you seen the fight?