Kelly Pavlik vs Bernard Hopkins

[St@rscreem]

You guys ask 'who has hopkins beaten', as if Pavlik is the more accomplished fighter of the two.

[moofo]

You guys ask 'who has hopkins beaten', as if Pavlik is the more accomplished fighter of the two.

In recent history he is.
But still , tell me who has Hopkins beaten that garners him all time great status?
Which great Middleweights has he beaten?
The best he has faced he has lost to.

[Ryn0]

Let's face it, even if Hopkins fought Taylor in a hundred fights he'll never KO Taylor.

Kelly doesnt even need 12 rounds.

since when do you need to KO someone to win? Hopkins would outpoint Pavlik n make him look bad.

[ИATAS]

In recent history he is.
But still , tell me who has Hopkins beaten that garners him all time great status?
Which great Middleweights has he beaten?
The best he has faced he has lost to.

Winky Wright
Antonio Tarver
Oscar De La Hoya (Oscars only KO defeat)
William Joppy
Felix Trinidad (undefeated at the time)
Glen Johnson (undefeated at the time)
Howard Eastman (40-1 at the time)

Only losses coming from undefeated Jermaine Taylor (two controversial decision) and undefeated Roy Jones Jr (feature HOF).

Was a middleweight champion for 11 years. 20 (or 21?) consecutive title defenses.

Pretty impressive list, IMO. Anyone that says otherwise is a fool, plain & simple.

If Hopkins isn't an All Time Great then I don't know who is.

[moofo]

Winky Wright : a natural light middleweight

Antonio Tarver : Never really world class and beat a past his prime RJJ
More interested in his Acting career at the time of the Hopkins fight

Oscar De La Hoya (Oscars only KO defeat)A blown up welterweight who never fought & beat anyone of merit at middleweight.

William Joppy: Blown up welter

Felix Trinidad (undefeated at the time) Blown up Welter

Glen Johnson (undefeated at the time) A decent operator but never true world champ

Howard Eastman (40-1 at the time) Hit & miss mediocre operator destroyed by Miranda.

Only losses coming from undefeated Jermaine Taylor (two controversial decision) and undefeated Roy Jones Jr (feature HOF).

Was a middleweight champion for 11 years. 20 (or 21?) consecutive title defenses.

Pretty impressive list, IMO. Anyone that says otherwise is a fool, plain & simple.

If Hopkins isn't an All Time Great then I don't know who is......



So to be truthful the only time he met world class operators his own size he lost.
He NEVER avenged those losses either.

I ask you one more time.
WHO DID HE BEAT WHO WAS A WORLD CLASS TRUE MIDDLEWEIGHT??

[Fox McCloud]

Glen Johnson (undefeated at the time) A decent operator but never true world champ

Don't forget Johnson was as green as they come. He was a true world champion at 175, he beat Jones Jr. and Tarver. But he was still so inexperienced when he fought Hopkins.

[moofo]

Which Middleweights did Tito beat apart from joppy?
And who did Joppy beat?

I don't really see any real pedigree from any of Hopkins opponents at middleweight.

It seems the 2 men who were world class beat him.

Hopkins has NOBODY on his record at Middleweight who is a World beater in the Middleweight division.

[St@rscreem]

In recent history he is.
But still , tell me who has Hopkins beaten that garners him all time great status?

Um yea. Whether you want to call them 'blown up' welters or jr middles, Tito Trinidad, Winky Wright, and DLH trump anyone on Pavliks list. And I won't even get into people like Tarver and Glen Johnson.

Hopkins is my favorite boxer, so I won't get into a discussion on his ATG status in this thread since its really irrelevant and I'd be biased, but to say Kelly Pavlik is the more accomplished fighter is maybe the craziest thing I've ever heard on this forum, and thats saying a whole lot.

[moofo]

Um yea. Whether you want to call them 'blown up' welters or jr middles, Tito Trinidad, Winky Wright, and DLH trump anyone on Pavliks list. And I won't even get into people like Tarver and Glen Johnson.

Hopkins is my favorite boxer, so I won't get into a discussion on his ATG status in this thread since its really irrelevant, but to say Kelly Pavlik is the more accomplished fighter is maybe the craziest thing I've ever heard on this forum, and thats saying a whole lot.

Pavlik is the World Champ.
Right now he is king.
So far he has beaten one of the most dangerous hitters in the division and then the recognised champ who beat Hopkins.
So right now that puts him above Hopkins at Middleweight.
I'm pretty sure Pavlik would have beaten Joppy , Tito and Winky as well.
Taylor beat Hopkins so he trumps Tito , Winky & ODLH cos they LOST to Hopkins surely??

Hopkins record is no different to that of Joe Calzaghe.
They both held titles for so long whilst fighting nobody of real merit.
They both had the opportunity to meet each other and other harder tests at higher weights too.

They have both cherry picked their way to "Legendary" status.

[ИATAS]

Winky Wright : a natural light middleweight

Antonio Tarver : Never really world class and beat a past his prime RJJ
More interested in his Acting career at the time of the Hopkins fight

Oscar De La Hoya (Oscars only KO defeat)A blown up welterweight who never fought & beat anyone of merit at middleweight.

William Joppy: Blown up welter

Felix Trinidad (undefeated at the time) Blown up Welter

Glen Johnson (undefeated at the time) A decent operator but never true world champ

Howard Eastman (40-1 at the time) Hit & miss mediocre operator destroyed by Miranda.

Only losses coming from undefeated Jermaine Taylor (two controversial decision) and undefeated Roy Jones Jr (feature HOF).

Was a middleweight champion for 11 years. 20 (or 21?) consecutive title defenses.

Pretty impressive list, IMO. Anyone that says otherwise is a fool, plain & simple.

If Hopkins isn't an All Time Great then I don't know who is......



So to be truthful the only time he met world class operators his own size he lost.
He NEVER avenged those losses either.

I ask you one more time.
WHO DID HE BEAT WHO WAS A WORLD CLASS TRUE MIDDLEWEIGHT??

This is such a weak argument. All of those people listed were fighting as middleweights. What is Hopkins going to do? Turn down the biggest fights in his life because someone in the future is going to say "well they weren't TRUE middleweights". Please.

It's like saying Marvin Hagler aint **** - All he did was beat up on smaller, "blown up welterweights." Roberto Duran? Blown up welterweight. Sugar Ray Leonard? Blown up welterweight. It's rediculous.

Hopkins cleaned up the middleweight division and held on to the titles for over 10 years. So what if the biggest names are "blown up welterweights?" They chose to fight Hopkins, they weren't forced to. Hopkins fought the best opponents available.