Pavlik/Hopkins ?

[wmute]

Who's a comparable opponent that Hopkins beat like that to make such an assertion?

I never rated Taylor very high, hence I dont rate Pavlik very high. Pavlik might be the next Hopkins. Or he could be the next Minter, Antuofermo... note I am only mentioning undisputed MW champions. The fact that he got dropped in his first title fight against possibly "the worst middleweight champion ever" (your words), does not bode well.

Hopkins made every victory look like easy work for 10 years, until he fought Eastman, and looked like he could fight only part time.

I just dont think old Hopkins can deal with Pavlik's offense and tenacity. Simple as.

I agree.

[wmute]

Tito never stayed on the canvas cause he frequently went down from flash knock downs, sign of a suspect jaw. Just when he got up all his opponents thought they could hook with Tito thinkin he was hurt, in the end Tito's power on those whipping hooks would prevail. You get any leverage on Trinidad, chances are he'll go down. It's not like Hopkins was loading up and smashin Tito all night, he was just out pointing him and moving and boxing. All they talked about that night up untill the last 2 or 3 rounds was Hopkins boxing and stayin away from Trinidad's power. Not only that but Trinidad was at 160 wich made him more durable then before. In one of those later rounds is when they really started exchange and Trinidad just kept missin and Hopkins landed just about everything he threw, then landed an uppercut and Trinidad would have went down if there was more time. He was on wobbley legs and everything. If that kind of fight broke out earlier, the fight would have ended earlier.

you are making it sound like Hopkins was pulling a Spinks on Tito. He did not stand and trade, he figured it out (round 1) frustrate him, worked him (slowly, I will admit, but why should not be slow, against one of the biggest punchers in the recent history of the sport?) broke him down, and stopped him.

And he almost KO'ed allen in that second fight, everyone can remember that right hand. That **** was brutal, but he did remain active that night. Allen put that extra effort into stayin off the canvas by D'n up and he succeeded. In the Taylor fights, he fought tentitive, that reach, power, and speed of Taylor kept Hopkins on his toes. In the Wright bout he was active, just couldnt find his openings. And in the Tarver fight he was able to pick up those slow long arms of Antonio's and out point him all night. I think that's similiar to how a fight with Pavlik would go. Kelly doesnt have blinding speed, and he doesn't have phenomenal defense. I don't care how good his chin is, too many from Bernard and Pavlik will fold. Not only that, but Pavlik would still have to get past Bernard's defense. A fight at 165 or higher, I have a feeling Hopkins would just pick Pavlik apart. Hopkins has the stamina and he's a intelligent puncher, I don't see Pavlik gettin passed that.

That's what I am saying, a younger version of Allen could not see the bell when he fought Hopkins! With a 2000 Hopkins, no extra effort would have taken him to round 12. Hopkins would have just pushed the pedal, and fight harder as the fight went on. A younger Hopkins could have been a great in the era of 15 rounds, but not anymore.

Wright and Tarver fought at a pace which Hopkins could keep, and he was tired in the 2nd half of the winky fight. When did you ever see Hopkins tired, before?

I dont think Taylor power bothered Hopkins, his reach/jab ok, his speed, but not his power. Taylor threw a LOT of punches, and so will do Pavlik. Pavlik jabbed well too. Pavlik is open for counters, but Taylor's defense is far from perfect, too.

I see what you are saying, because if Hopkins was there to finish round 2, Pavlik would not have made it, but I think that Hopkins cannot deal with youth at this point, and he would not have had Pavlik down for the count to begin with.

[sonofisis]

[MaYaN_SuN]

you are making it sound like Hopkins was pulling a Spinks on Tito. He did not stand and trade, he figured it out (round 1) frustrate him, worked him (slowly, I will admit, but why should not be slow, against one of the biggest punchers in the recent history of the sport?) broke him down, and stopped him.




That's what I am saying, a younger version of Allen could not see the bell when he fought Hopkins! With a 2000 Hopkins, no extra effort would have taken him to round 12. Hopkins would have just pushed the pedal, and fight harder as the fight went on. A younger Hopkins could have been a great in the era of 15 rounds, but not anymore.

Wright and Tarver fought at a pace which Hopkins could keep, and he was tired in the 2nd half of the winky fight. When did you ever see Hopkins tired, before?

I dont think Taylor power bothered Hopkins, his reach/jab ok, his speed, but not his power. Taylor threw a LOT of punches, and so will do Pavlik. Pavlik jabbed well too. Pavlik is open for counters, but Taylor's defense is far from perfect, too.

I see what you are saying, because if Hopkins was there to finish round 2, Pavlik would not have made it, but I think that Hopkins cannot deal with youth at this point, and he would not have had Pavlik down for the count to begin with.

Out pointing someone doesn't mean your puttin on a slick show, it just means you're landed your punches with ease without any significant response. Wich Hopkins was doing, he was careful, tentitive (since Tito came into the fight lookin like a legitmate 160.), and he stayed moving. All cause he was aware of Tito's power, he wasn't gonna take rediculous chances.

I don't think he "figured" anything out, he just played it safe. It's when he ate a Tito left hook, felt it, soaked it in, them smiled at Tito...that's when he "figured out" that Tito couldnt hurt him. And after that, he started layin into his right hand's and hooks.





I can't agree with those words on Allen, I mean Hopkins landed a right hand that did everything but break Allen's jaw. It was a nasty Knock down, and to Allens credit, even possibley due to the fact it was his second bout with Bernard, he did enough to stay away and go onto 12.

Hopkin's did wrestle and try to pry open Winky's defense for the entire first half of the bout, plus he is 40 years old now. Granted, he's not fightin like he's 23 lol, but he isn't fightin like he's 40 years old either. I mean he moved up to get at Tarver and was able to hang. Now a bout with Pavlik, I think Bernard can move from that right hand of Kelly's, wich isnt blazing fast, and I think Bernard's right is sharp enough to get to Kelly's chin. Taylor occasionally got that right in on Hopkins, and thats probably the fastest right in the Middleweight division. I don't think Pavlik's would do any better.

Anyways though, Hopkins is a talker...and I haven't heard him callin out Pavlik or commenting on any of this, so who know's. Maybe he doesn't even want the fight.

[Joartcc3]

I know alot of people don't like Hopkins, for numerous reasons. But I don't think this would be a boring fight. Pavlik isnt fast enough to make Hopkins tentitive, and Pavlik doesn't have that Wright defense that would make Hopkins get all that nasty in the ring. I'd pay to see this.

Pavlik will absolutely murder Hopkins. Pavlik will be licensed to kill on this one.

A lot of people are idiots to think Pavlik is slow.

Well lucky for you dude. Miranda and Taylor thought Pavlik slow.

Just look at what happened to them.

[QuCongee]

Pavlik will absolutely murder Hopkins. Pavlik will be licensed to kill on this one.

A lot of people are idiots to think Pavlik is slow

That first 1-2 he hit Taylor with in the 7th was surprisingly fast. Came out of nowhere.

[Joartcc3]

I never rated Taylor very high, hence I dont rate Pavlik very high. Pavlik might be the next Hopkins. Or he could be the next Minter, Antuofermo... note I am only mentioning undisputed MW champions. The fact that he got dropped in his first title fight against possibly "the worst middleweight champion ever" (your words), does not bode well.

Hopkins made every victory look like easy work for 10 years, until he fought Eastman, and looked like he could fight only part time.



I agree.

If you don't rate Taylor very high, then what about Hopkins? He got creamed by Taylor in 24 rounds while Pavlik murdered Taylor in 7.

So if taylor isn't very high, well Hopkins is.......................

AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HEAP.

Get the basic logic dude?

[riza]

b-hop should win this fight even at this age. just the much better fighter and too smart for kelly

[MightyMikeA]

I think Bore-nard would get DQ'd in a fight versus Pavlik. The ONLY thing he could do against the young, volume punching Pavlik is trie and tie him up and make it a signature Slopkins fights with dirty tactics on the inside to wear the young man down. This would not work though, simply because whatever Pavlik does land is going to hurt the old man. At 42 he should not be fighting a devastating puncher like Kelly as his older body would not be able to cope over 12 rounds. Out of fear of being knocked out (Bhop would never allow this), he would get soooooo goddam dirty he would get DQ'd and never step in the ring with a young warrior again.

[pesticid]

I think Bore-nard would get DQ'd in a fight versus Pavlik. The ONLY thing he could do against the young, volume punching Pavlik is trie and tie him up and make it a signature Slopkins fights with dirty tactics on the inside to wear the young man down. This would not work though, simply because whatever Pavlik does land is going to hurt the old man. At 42 he should not be fighting a devastating puncher like Kelly as his older body would not be able to cope over 12 rounds. Out of fear of being knocked out (Bhop would never allow this), he would get soooooo goddam dirty he would get DQ'd and never step in the ring with a young warrior again.

Yeah, good call! Btw Pavlik is pretty nasty on the inside too. Did u see him smacking Taylor with the right to the body and side of the head when Taylor tried to hold? I remember those shots with the right to the body when Taylor was holding him and I kept thinking of Kelly hitting that truck tire with the hammer.