Andre Berto- Exposed?

[squealpiggy]

Berto was extrmely fortunate to get away with the between-round shenanigans that went on. He also benefitted from an extremely long count and an early finish to the round it seemed.

[Njord777]

I see two camps developing for the most part - that both need to drink from the fountain of moderation. They are as follows:

A.) Andre Berto is amazing.
There are still fans on these forums that are downplaying the weaknesses they saw in Berto against Rivera to the point of almost ignoring them. They explain how he got knocked down (some go so far as to call it a flash knock down which it wasn't) and still went on to dominate the fight. They say he showed he is growing just fine and they saw nothing to make them pause at his development.

B.) Andre Berto is another Jeff Lacy.

These guys are on the forums replaying the knock-down against Cosme over and over and laughing, "See! I told ya'll Berto was over-hyped!" Rather than take his youth into account they expect that the excitement of his fans must translate to immediate growth. While the first group ignored the flaws he showed against Cosme this group dwells on them. Almost to the point where they ignore the positives.

I think the truth is closer to :

C.) Andre Berto is a very solid prospect, with youth, that may or may not be all he's hyped up as.

The Cosme Rivera fight did indeed show some flaws. Berto needs to learn patience- that will come with time. He needs to stay focused and not get so lax he gets hit by a solid shot and goes down- which happened. His head movement has not developed because he has never needed it. Berto still looks like a fast, strong talented young fighter who is too accustom to plodding in towards his man, letting his hands go, and ending the other man's night. He shows that he does not have a plan 'B' or 'C' to fall back on if he needs it- not yet. While the detractors are wrong in saying the Rivera fight proved he's a fraud the Berto lovers may also be wrong in ignoring some of these faults. I think the next few fights, especially if he fights David Estrada, will make or break him. This fight was the yellow light. It meant slow down- not just for Berto, but for his fans. Take a step back, remember how young and green he is. Go to the gym and learn to use the physical talents he most obviously has. The light is yellow - it may turn green or red from here. Some fighters learn in leap and bounds. By the time they enter their 20th professional fight they look like the next champion bar none. Berto does not- yet. He may learn to adjust his gameplan and use his talents and show us he is within the next few fights...or he may watch his stock plummet as we learn he's not capable of having anything but one style that just won't cut it in today's welterweight division. We don't know yet.

[guzi815]

This is my full analysis of Andre Berto, at least up to this point, after watching his fight with Cosme Rivera tonight. I used to word exposed to prove a point, not suggest its accuracy:

We love power. Boxing fans love the type of punch that can roll a man's eyes back into his head while his body stiffens- his body in the ring but his mind punched somewhere else. It's a brutal sport. So when I say part of this interest in Andre Berto is his power- please understand. I think you guys can. We've seen him put guys down in almost every single fight. We like that. Berto is a short, stocky looking guy who moves in - hands blazing- and drops his opponent. It has been that attribute alone that got him most of his current fans.

Rivera is not a top dog but he's no slouch, either. Easily the toughest opponent Berto has gone in against so this fight was important to watch in gaging the young prospect's development. It's important to remember just how young he is. The kid has only been a professional for three years and I take that into account in my assessment- we all should. It's too early to expect some things from him but - as calling him a prospect implies he is aspiring to something- other attributes need to be apparent. So, where does Berto stand after we saw him tested against Cosme?

What we expect to see from a fighter approaching his nineteenth fight is a mixture of talent and learning. Berto has speed on his punches which fans love to see. When he jumps on an opponent and lets his hands go it really does look impressive. Add to that his power - which after this fight must lay in some indeterminable point between solid pop and destructive **** - and you have a talented young kid. Speed, power and the ability to pick good shots- that's a formula for success.

What about the learning, the professional ring experience we expect to see from a boxer soon approaching his 20th fight? The ability to fight his way- to avoid sloppy mistakes, to anticipate things from his opponent? Well, the bad news is this is where Cosme "exposed" Berto. The exposure in this sense is the simple revelation that Andre suffers from his youth in a way immature, Herculeian future champions are somehow supposed to be immune to.

Berto won the first few rounds with relative ease. He was head hunting, using his speed and strength to go for the knock out. Teddy Atlas and company, the boys from ESPN2's Friday Night Fights, told us this was just nerves- that he wanted to impress the television audience. Was it, though? Berto has been in front of the cameras on HBO several times before tonight and he fought the same way. In fact, can you drudge up a single fight from the young fighter in which he hasn't been fighting like that? Yes, occasionally he has shown some measure of reservation and not come out the gate quite as strongly but Andre Berto reminded us tonight that he may suffer from a curse.

Andre Berto, as said earlier, is fast and powerful - and that natural talent weighs much heavier early in your career. Where a defending champion taking on his number one ranked, undefeated challenger has to anticipate needing to go a full twelve rounds Berto has never needed to. Because of his natural talents every opponent up to this point has crumbled beneath his bombardment. Fighting just as he did tonight, marching forward and using his fast hands to try and land a bomb - he has knocked out 16 men. In fact, defense has become a secondary notion to him - Andre's defense is most clearly his offense. He never quite looks sloppy when he attacks but his brawling mentality is obvious. His curse has been that the natural talent he was given has prevented him from needing to learn certain things a future champion must. Why learn to anticipate what your opponent is going to do when he is too busy struggling to survive against your onslaughts? Why learn to always be cautious when the men staring at you all fall when you connect? Why learn to mix things up even when it prevents you doing maximum damage when maximum damage always gives you a win?

Tonight we saw that Berto's talent has stunted his growth to a degree. When Cosme looked like a tougher version of all the other men he has fought, unable to win rounds and only counting the minutes until they fell, he got lazy- careless. Rivera switched southpaw for a split second and a truly vicious uppercut put Berto down. Not a flash knock down- not the type of quick, minor shot that just shuts down your legs for a second. This was a legitimate, powerful knock-down. Berto was hurt and the end of the round saved him - as did his corner's stalling for time at the beginning of the next round while they "fixed his tape".

What happened next? Well, Berto reminded himself that he began his career fighting a middleweight and won the fight solidly. So, another win and another step forward. But the inevitable question looms- what does the knockdown mean? His his chin weak? Is he a flawed fighter rather than the talented prospect we thought he was?

First- the short by Rivera truly was a wicked, hard uppercut from a veteran fighter. This was not the type of punch that makes you question his chin- especially because he was being so careless it did not look like he even anticipated it. This was the type of punch that would make me question his chin if he did not get hurt. We'd wonder if it was made of titanium and if it was legal.

Is Andre a flawed fighter? Yes. But isn't he also a young, green fighter? Yes. Plus, some fighters with talent and glaring flaws make it further than you would think (case in point Zab Judah). The most important thing to gather out of this fight is that, against a tested, tough veteran fighter with definite skill Berto confirmed that the physical attributes we thought he had are indeed legitimate. Against a veteran fighter, though, he seemed less able to simply swarm his man and knock him out- the other man had the anticipation for what his opponent would do and the head movement to befuddle Berto's attempts to end his night.

So where do we put him? I suggest after tonight's fight Berto is put in a sort of limbo area for young prospects. It's gut check time. We need to remind ourselves to not get over hyped too soon and feel the sting of Jeff Lacy number two. At the same time- we can't deny that the kid has a good offense, a solid shot, and enough speed to make it work. He looks pretty tough, too. The test is whether or not Berto can be guided by those around him, his trainer and sparring partners, to make use of those assets we see to a greater extent.

Berto might be the type of fighter who must use his offense as his defense and must be able to pressure his guy to look good. Some fighters are like that. In a very deep welterweight division Andre Berto is still a solid, good looking prospect. He's quickly in danger of becoming a man who was unable to take the jump up to being more than a prospect and morphing into a championship contender, though. Tonight he looked like the Berto his fans have come to love- but against a man who showed us some of the qualities a contender has that a prospect should learn.

In summary, Berto looks good physically- and he still has time to put it all together. Tonight he got up from the mat and did what it took to get a win- but against a tougher level of opposition showed some of the flaws we have been warned he has (lack of defense, a swarm forward approach rather than agile movement, the plodding my-head-does-not-need-to-move-because-I-knock-him-out flaw of a powerful prospect) but still looked good. There is a time table, though. A point at which his chances to grow run out and he is branded a let-down. Tonight he showed, more than anything, that he has not been able to overcome that hurdle just yet. Only time is going to tell if he ever will.

man, this post is so well put together, I had to read it twice! great analisys, and your accessment is top knotch, much respect. I like the fact that you mentioned Berto's mixture of talent and learning in his upcoming fights. On that note, It came as a shock for Andre Berto to be taken to the later rounds, and by a guy who was obviously in great shape. I don't think he ran out of gas, just made some costly mistakes. Mistakes that hopefully he'll learn from and adjust. I'm sure alot of eye brows were lifted after watching Cosme Rivera drop Berto. I, like many, will be watching very closely at his upcoming fights. I still believe Andre Berto will adjust and take a hard lesson learned. Thanks for the insight.

[Njord777]

man, this post is so well put together, I had to read it twice! great analisys, and your accessment is top knotch, much respect. I like the fact that you mentioned Berto's mixture of talent and learning in his upcoming fights. On that note, It came as a shock for Andre Berto to be taken to the later rounds, and by a guy who was obviously in great shape. I don't think he ran out of gas, just made some costly mistakes. Mistakes that hopefully he'll learn from and adjust. I'm sure alot of eye brows were lifted after watching Cosme Rivera drop Berto. I, like many, will be watching very closely at his upcoming fights. I still believe Andre Berto will adjust and take a hard lesson learned. Thanks for the insight.

I just decided to really put my thoughts out there on Berto's performance and all...and I sat down and typed up my analysis. I really appreciate all the good feedback. Thanks a ton.

[niceguy45]

IMO berto should either go up or retire cuz i think think he will be able to compete against any top welterweight....just saw the replay...berto highly over-rated

[freedom213]

I think of all the knocks on a fighter, all the negative ideas or stances- this has to be the most intelligent. While I'm still giving Berto a chance Dios, I think, is correct. Being prospect of the year means we should be seeing some huge things from him this year. The comparison to the top welterweight in the world right now, Mayweather, is not unmerited. If Andre can't take a jump up in class soon he's going to be in trouble.

They say his next fight is going to be against David Estrada. Estrada is a tough guy that went 10 with Mosley and helped Kermit Cintron make his comeback in a barn burner on ESPN2. This should be another huge test of Berto- a make it or break it type of fight if it does happen. Agreed?

Berto's team should reconsider fighting Estrada after this fight and continue to bring Berto along to develop against fighters of Riveras class. Estrada I think will be a little too much for Berto. Berto needs a few more fights against opposition that will push him to the distance and make him do more than offensively volley, in a sloppy manner. Some less risky opposition might be Steve Forbes, Oktay Urkal, Thomas Daamgard,

[Njord777]

Berto's team should reconsider fighting Estrada after this fight and continue to bring Berto along to develop against fighters of Riveras class. Estrada I think will be a little too much for Berto. Berto needs a few more fights against opposition that will push him to the distance and make him do more than offensively volley, in a sloppy manner. Some less risky opposition might be Steve Forbes, Oktay Urkal, Thomas Daamgard,

Hmm. Good point. Estrada has his fair share of power. If Berto gets sloppy and is hit with an Estrada shot like he was by Cosme it could be the end of his night. We have a burning desire for new blood in the sport and we want to see how all our prospects shape up. Fans want them tested, often too quickly, to see what they have. Not all are born great...for some its a very gradual process. Maybe Andre Berto saw that more experienced guys are going to give him fits and he needs to take it slow. Still - I think he's riding a wave of momentum that he's afraid to let slide and wants to increase his stock by fighting tougher and tougher opponents.

[Njord777]

I think a good question now is whether or not you guys feel Andre Berto is up to taking on David Estrada in his next fight. If not, who would you like to see him in against?