When did the Heavyweight division lose it's appeal??

[The Troll]

Chagaev, Povetkin, Maskaev, Klitschko and Ibragimov are excellent heavyweights, but no matter what they do they will never be recognized by some Americans because of the Archie Bunker mentality. All they remember is Wlad's losses, not his 43 KO's and 48 wins. It's the same with Hatton and Calzaghe - top level, but get no recognition because they were born on the wrong side of the ocean.

There's an old song by Bob Dylan "How many roads must a man walk down before they call him a man? The answer is blowing in the wind." If Ibragimov and Chagaev win their next 10 fights, or if Wlad unifies the division, there will still be no recognition. I'm sorry if some people's cups are half empty, but mine is completely full!

They're pretty good but there was so many good heavyweights in the 90's. guys like

George Foreman
Tommy Morrison
Rid**** Bowe
Evander Holyfield
Tyson was around
Michael Moore
Andrew Golota
Lennox Lewis
Oliver McCall
Ike Ibeabuchi
David Tua
Ray Mercer


And there was alot of guys besides that who were good, that were maybe, were just a little past their primes like Tim Witherspoon, Michael Dokes etc..

Maskaev was around back then

There was so much depth. Even a younger Shannon Briggs was another contender, Frank Bruno, just so much depth.

[Steelhammer86]

Now we have a lot of excellent young heavyweights coming up the ranks, such as Dimitrenko, Haye, Platov, Povetkin, Boystov, Greenberg, Witherspoon, *****ko, Chambers and Arreola. I think the young talent is better than it was in the 90's. Denis Boytsov is like a young Mike Tyson (17-0, 16 KO's) and Alexander Povetkin has looked awesome so far.

[The Troll]

I think by the year 2010 when some of these guys are more well established and there's something to measure them against (Wlad, the current belt holders) and if they fight each other the heavyweight division will be good again.

[paul750]

Regarding the Eastern European guys: I can only speak for myself, but these guys have not thus far, staked their claim as great heavyweights. Indeed Wladimir is a talented guy, but he has shown he has big problems too. If one of these guys were to be as successful as a Lennox or a Holmes then I'd have absolutely no problem whatsoever in acknowledging how great they are. What I won't do is pretend any of them are the saviour of the division or the best heavyweight out there based on no proof. People can make up their own minds and don't need to be force-fed things.

If a guy, regardless of his colour or nationality, comes along and shows he has what it takes, then most people will acknowledge that.

[DiegoFuego]

You remind me of Archie Bunker. He didn't like foreigners either.

Nice way to back out of the argument. Just admit you lost next time and save yourself the trouble, coward.

[DiegoFuego]

Chagaev, Povetkin, Maskaev, Klitschko and Ibragimov are excellent heavyweights, but no matter what they do they will never be recognized by some Americans because of the Archie Bunker mentality. All they remember is Wlad's losses, not his 43 KO's and 48 wins. It's the same with Hatton and Calzaghe - top level, but get no recognition because they were born on the wrong side of the ocean.

There's an old song by Bob Dylan "How many roads must a man walk down before they call him a man? The answer is blowing in the wind." If Ibragimov and Chagaev win their next 10 fights, or if Wlad unifies the division, there will still be no recognition. I'm sorry if some people's cups are half empty, but mine is completely full!

That's hilarious. I seriously doubt any of them would come close to cracking a top 50 heavyweights of all time list. Maybe Wladimir by the time he's done.

[Steelhammer86]

Nice way to back out of the argument. Just admit you lost next time and save yourself the trouble, coward.

You always resort to low blows, by calling me "coward" or "******" or insane. You have no sense of fair play, do you?

Yes, all of those heavyweights I mentioned are excellent boxers, and some of them, like Povetkin and Chagaev, will probably be ranked in the top 50 of all time when they are finished. Wladimir, with his 48 wins and 43 KO's, is already in BoxRec's all time top 50. But you'll never respect any of them, no matter what they accomplish, because you're prejudiced.

[DiegoFuego]

You always resort to low blows, by calling me "coward" or "******" or insane. You have no sense of fair play, do you?

Yes, all of those heavyweights I mentioned are excellent boxers, and some of them, like Povetkin and Chagaev, will probably be ranked in the top 50 of all time when they are finished. Wladimir, with his 48 wins and 43 KO's, is already in BoxRec's all time top 50. But you'll never respect any of them, no matter what they accomplish, because you're prejudiced.

that's quite an accusation. who am I prejudiced against? I'd love to know.

I respect fighters of all nationalities if they are actually great fighters. All the heavyweights you are talking about might be good fighters, but none of them are great or they would be winning in spectacular fashion and fighting the best matchups available. You can't truly believe any of these current beltholders would be contenders in other heavyweight eras. I know you don't believe that, so I'll just stop listening when you insist on it.

[Steelhammer86]

I respect fighters of all nationalities if they are actually great fighters. All the heavyweights you are talking about might be good fighters, but none of them are great or they would be winning in spectacular fashion and fighting the best matchups available. You can't truly believe any of these current beltholders would be contenders in other heavyweight eras. I know you don't believe that, so I'll just stop listening when you insist on it.

Boxers don't need to be all time greats like Joe Louis for me to respect them, or I wouldn't be able to enjoy the sport! There does need to be some excellent fighters, like there is now in the heavyweight division.

Povetkin and Wlad have been winning in rather "spectacular fashion"- Alexander's last two wins have been 2nd round KO's, Wlad's last three have been one 2nd and two 7th round stoppages. Both have very high KO percentaged, as has Boytsov, Vitali and Chagaev.

No boxer has ever won every fight by first round KO - not Holyfield, not Ali, not Lewis nor Holmes. If Klitschko, Chagaev and Povetkin won all their fights in the first round by KO, would that be good enough for you? Or would they have to be born in America, before you would respect them...

[DiegoFuego]

Boxers don't need to be all time greats like Joe Louis for me to respect them, or I wouldn't be able to enjoy the sport! There does need to be some excellent fighters, like there have always been and are now in the heavyweight division.

Povetkin and Wlad have been winning in rather "spectacular fashion"- Alexander's last two wins have been 2nd round KO's, Wlad's last three have been one 2nd and two 7th round stoppages. Both have very high KO percentaged, as has Vitali and Chagaev.

No boxer has ever won every fight by first round KO - not Holyfield, not Ali, not Lewis nor Holmes. If Klitschko, Chagaev and Povetkin won all their fights in the first round by KO, would that be good enough for you? Or would they have to be born in America, before you would respect them...

Who have any of them beat? You don't get respect for beating up the other weaklings in your division until you beat ALL of them and unify the belts until a real challenger comes along for you to defend against.

Saying Wladimir or any of these other beltholders are good is like saying the dork that makes fun of the other dorks is cool. It doesn't work that way. You don't get ahead by beating up on weaklings.

For me to respect Wladimir, he has to unify the titles, something he will not do whether because he knows he can't or he doesn't want to risk it.