Are many of us hypocrites?

[El Jesus]

When you control a fight like Floyd did there its your job as boxer to step up and finish the fight.

And what about when people rip Jason Litzau and Delvin Rodriguez when they stand trade with a guy and get KO'ed when they could have just used their boxing ability to win a 12 round desicion?

[Njord777]

I think people are missing your point, people are in love with power, period. Its the reason Edison Miranda can still be loved after getting his ass kicked 7 straight rounds and floyd is hated. Power and the willingness to engage, take some to get some. People love it, period.

That's pretty much what I'm trying to get at. These smaller boxers or men without high knockout ratios can't get any love from the casual fan. If Floyd had the exact same style- I mean to the tee the exact same style- and yet would knock a guy out in the late rounds people wouldn't call him boring. Boring- as posters have said here- means twelve full rounds. I hear that all the time. 12 full rounds of boring fighting. Green was a puncher...some people jumped on him, Miranda was a puncher- tons joined his bandwagon. Now Pavlik. All because of power. Not skill - just that punch.


Want an example other than Mayweather? I can't fathom that everyone wants to see "exciting fighters" and yet 90% of the people here aren't constantly talking about Juan "Baby Bull" Diaz. The kid is undefeated - just beat Freitas- and is probably the most action paced fighter in boxing. He goes from one bell to the next throwing punches. He hits, and moves forward, and pummels the guy. Punches, punches, punches- lands brutal sounding shots all fight long. He's 32-0. Why isn't he being ****** off on these forums? Because he's 32-0 with only 16 KO's. The kid fights like an animal but without power. As far as excitement goes there are few fighters with that much pep, that have so much heart, that fight with such furious intensity. How many people here really talk about Diaz that much? No? That's what I thought.

Infatuation with knockouts.

[The Troll]

And what about when people rip Jason Litzau and Delvin Rodriguez when they stand trade with a guy and get KO'ed when they could have just used their boxing ability to win a 12 round desicion?

Niether of them were attempting to lose.

[The Troll]

That's pretty much what I'm trying to get at. These smaller boxers or men without high knockout ratios can't get any love from the casual fan. If Floyd had the exact same style- I mean to the tee the exact same style- and yet would knock a guy out in the late rounds people wouldn't call him boring. Boring- as posters have said here- means twelve full rounds. I hear that all the time. 12 full rounds of boring fighting. Green was a puncher...some people jumped on him, Miranda was a puncher- tons joined his bandwagon. Now Pavlik. All because of power. Not skill - just that punch.

Want an example other than Mayweather? I can't fathom that everyone wants to see "exciting fighters" and yet 90% of the people here aren't constantly talking about Juan "Baby Bull" Diaz. The kid is undefeated - just beat Freitas- and is probably the most action paced fighter in boxing. He goes from one bell to the next throwing punches. He hits, and moves forward, and pummels the guy. Punches, punches, punches- lands brutal sounding shots all fight long. He's 32-0. Why isn't he being ****** off on these forums? Because he's 32-0 with only 16 KO's. The kid fights like an animal but without power. As far as excitement goes there are few fighters with that much pep, that have so much heart, that fight with such furious intensity. How many people here really talk about Diaz that much? No? That's what I thought.

Infatuation with knockouts.

Yes, but Pavlk defeated Miranda for superior boxing ability. I dont know where people get this that only people that are good boxers are guys like Floyd that never press fights and just do enough to get descisions, that's not what boxing is about.

[Njord777]

Yes, but Pavlk defeated Miranda for superior boxing ability. I dont know where people get this that only people that are good boxers are guys like Floyd that never press fights and just do enough to get descisions, that's not what boxing is about.

Pavlik's superior game plan...using boxing skill was the following: make Miranda go backwards. That's it. That is all he had to do. Pavlik used a good game plan and won. He looked good- I agree. But the fighter he was up against took so little to crack; just making Edison go backwards flustered and confused him. All Kelly had to do was keep moving forward. He took some good shots. Showed a solid chin. He stayed to his game plan. Showed a mental toughness. But, all in all, the Miranda-Pavlik fight showed me more about Miranda's weaknesses than Pavlik's strengths. We already knew he could punch. What did we really learn about his skill. That he can move forward with B- defense (if that)? Do that against a solid boxer/puncher and watch Kelly eat it. It's too soon to call Pavlik the next big middleweight. Maybe in terms of no one else being out there...but people are just foaming at the mouth for this guy because he's "exciting".....

[Tha_Greatest]

So, so many people here are on their knees for Kelly Pavlik. This must be solely based on his power. Let's look at Floyd Mayweather- a guy who is constantly being trash talked and has many detractors. Pavlik is 31-0.

When Mayweather was 31-0 he had already fought the following :

1.) Demarcus Corley
2.) Phillip N'Dou
3.) Jose Louis Castillo
4.) Jesus Chavez
5.) Diego Corrales
6.)Genaro Hernandez

Pavlik who is now 31-0 has fought:

.....? Zertuche? McKart? I mean really- he has yet to fight any known, champion level fighters. Miranda was up-and coming- but not A level. I don't a have a problem with Kelly Pavlik but people are calling him an amazing fighter. Look at Floyd when he had the same record....he's still being criticized after beating Oscar de la Hoya. Is there any excuse for you guys riding him other than his power...? This is a thread I hope gets some discussion going...it really confuses me.

He moves up too much and skips important fights like Casamayor, Freitas, Mosley,Tsyzu, Hatton, Cotto,The real Jesus Chavez(not that sorry one you posted that is from Mexico), Margarito and makes up for that by fighting Bruseles, NDou overated ,pathetic Gatti,Mayorga,Corley, V.Sosa, the Jesus Chavesfrom Mexico(not El Matador Chaves), He couldve stayed at the lower weights when Morales was calling him out about 3 years ago and fought possibly against actual great hall of fame type fighters like Morales,Barrera,J.MMarquez and need i say more. He skipped so many fighters and claimed to wipe out the devisions, he claimes to be undefeated when everyone honestly knows he lost to Castillo and still he runs his mouth as if he were a god. He recently barely got by a old, tired out of prime and out of top 20 p4p Oscar, it was supposed to be a war said Mayweather, he was supposed to smack De La Hoya. Old De La Hoya, Floyds face was the one with bumps and bruises and at the end when people heard who was the winner of the controversial decision fight, almost everyone shouted out Bull****. Floyd got booed in his hometown, where he lives, Las Vegas. Floyd actually asked forforgiveness to sorry ass UFC for ripping on their sport, Floyds dad wanted to cry when he tried to answer honestly that hhe in his heart thought Oscar won. Now Floyd claims to be the greatest still and wants to retire. Hes crazy in ways

[The Troll]

Pavlik's superior game plan...using boxing skill was the following: make Miranda go backwards. That's it. That is all he had to do. Pavlik used a good game plan and won. He looked good- I agree. But the fighter he was up against took so little to crack; just making Edison go backwards flustered and confused him. All Kelly had to do was keep moving forward. He took some good shots. Showed a solid chin. He stayed to his game plan. Showed a mental toughness. But, all in all, the Miranda-Pavlik fight showed me more about Miranda's weaknesses than Pavlik's strengths. We already knew he could punch. What did we really learn about his skill. That he can move forward with B- defense (if that)? Do that against a solid boxer/puncher and watch Kelly eat it. It's too soon to call Pavlik the next big middleweight. Maybe in terms of no one else being out there...but people are just foaming at the mouth for this guy because he's "exciting".....

Pavliik is very fundamentally sound, he used his advantages and did what was neccessary to win and win in convincing fashion. You think it would do him good to get up on his toes and dance around the ring like Ali, or fight off the ropes countering like James Toney. His style simplistic but effective. Why complicate things if you dont have to, nobody has ever forced him to. He made the neccessary adjustments againt Miranda, being maybe a little bit more agressive and come forward than usual.

[Njord777]

I think his style is simple and he has flaws. I'm lost why he's so amazingly exciting other than his power. No one care to comment on my point about Juan Diaz?

[The Troll]

I think his style is simple and he has flaws. I'm lost why he's so amazingly exciting other than his power. No one care to comment on my point about Juan Diaz?

Who would you rather watch at 160. Your criticizing the guy for defeating his opponents in the most dominant way possible, by knockout, he's stopped like the last 9 guys he faced or something. Anybody he goes against he's going to make them fight, I like guys like that personally.

[Njord777]

When your opposition is weak you can knock them out. I'm not saying Pavlik is a poor fighter; rather that he's a flawed fighter. I think he's a nice guy, good puncher, but I don't think he's the messiah of the middleweight division. My point is more along the lines of : why jump on Pavlik just because he can punch. Your argument is in the land of the blind men the one eyed man is king. If there's nobody better out there he's amazing. No....I'm not sold on Pavlik. Do you like Juan Diaz? Since you like exciting, pressure fighters.