Haye a threat at HW?

[kayjay]

None of them are really "terrific" heavyweights, they'd all be pretty sorry KO victims against a prime Lewis, Tyson (I'd give Vitali a shot against an early 90's onward Tyson), etc.

You've also got to remember that Haye isn't nearly as small as Chagaev for example and wouldn't be a "small" heavyweight. He'd probably scale upwards of 230 lbs if he became a full time heavyweight. His hooks are undeveloped because they would have nullified his height and reach advantage at Cruiserweight and with a slow introduction to the rigours of heavyweight boxing he could turn out to be rather competitive.

OK Beo, but he is no spring chicken, and at this point he will never learn to box like the guy you mention as an example. That guy beats Haye 100 times out of 100.

And I disagree with your assessment of the other fighters. Wlad beats Tyson more often than not, and Lewis some of the time. Vitali does even better.

[kayjay]

I'm not doubting he has flaws but he is still a reltively young fighter and has room for improvement and will get a lot bigger when he steps up for real. Also i didnt say i thought he would clean up the division just asked if he would be a threat. U mention there being a lot of good HW Wlad being the best at the mo maybe who if he isnt now was he has definately been a flawed fighter in the past has he not? He has improved so what makes u think haye cannot?

There's a difference between having flaws (Wlad) and lacking all fundamentals (Haye). At 27 you don't just then learn to throw a hook (Beo I know he didn't need it at CW, but he will at HW). Sam Peter is/was raw but he had a much better foundation.

Can you imagine Haye counterpunching James Toney? Sam Peter managed THAT

[!!! Beowulf !!!]

OK Beo, but he is no spring chicken, and at this point he will never learn to box like the guy you mention as an example. That guy beats Haye 100 times out of 100.

And I disagree with your assessment of the other fighters. Wlad beats Tyson more often than not, and Lewis some of the time. Vitali does even better.

I think you're overrating Vitali. I'd see Lewis beating him 96 times out of 100. Vitali would have the style to trouble Tyson, and so would Wlad I guess. Wlad is more chinny than Lewis and not as canny, he'd get knocked out by Lennox.


Haye was a very good amateur (not as good as Chagaev) winning a silver at the worlds (losing to Odlanier Solis) so he evidently as better fundamentals than you're giving him credit for given the requirements to get a points win in the amateurs).


I'd agree that he depends on jabs and straights too much (like Kessler). However his power is a great equaliser and he is very talented. He wouldn't take the heavyweights by storm right away, but he could grow into it.

[Steelhammer86]

....He looked good and he could be effective against the smaller heavies. Against the skilled big guys he would have issues IMO.

Haye is two inches taller than Chagaev and Ibragimov, and his 80'' reach greatly exceeds theirs. He'll do okay against the big heavyweights.

David Haye is the same height, 6'3'', and has the same reach, 80, as Muhammed Ali, who did well at Heavyweight! "Cassius Clay" started as a Light Heavyweight (Olympic Gold Medal at LH, 1960, Cassius Clay).

Haye is a natural heavyweight.

[paulstokes2432]

There's a difference between having flaws (Wlad) and lacking all fundamentals (Haye). At 27 you don't just then learn to throw a hook (Beo I know he didn't need it at CW, but he will at HW). Sam Peter is/was raw but he had a much better foundation.

Can you imagine Haye counterpunching James Toney? Sam Peter managed THAT

IMO you are underrating Hayes ability but thats boxing i guess and ppl will always disagree i think he has a shot to do good things in the division i dont believe the top guys in the division are as good as you think they are but again thats just opinions in my opinion Lewis would beat wlad 99 times out of 100 the guys chin is definately questionable. Doesn't the fact that Toney is up there at the top show how poor the division is?

[!!! Beowulf !!!]

There's a difference between having flaws (Wlad) and lacking all fundamentals (Haye). At 27 you don't just then learn to throw a hook (Beo I know he didn't need it at CW, but he will at HW). Sam Peter is/was raw but he had a much better foundation.

Can you imagine Haye counterpunching James Toney? Sam Peter managed THAT

How can you say Sam Peter had a better foundation? Sam is still a far cruder fighter than Haye, though obviously with a better chin and the requisite conditioning to succeed.


I think you're being pretty unfair on Haye. Sure he isn't ready for the Klits or Peter and would be outboxed by Chagaev (who is however in danger of being overrated following two close victories), but he'd be good value against a lot of the other name fighters at the weight.

[PBDS]

Haye is two inches taller than Chagaev and Ibragimov, and his 80'' reach greatly exceeds theirs. He'll do okay against the big heavyweights.

David Haye is the same height, 6'3'', and has the same reach, 80, as Muhammed Ali, who did well at Heavyweight! "Cassius Clay" started as a Light Heavyweight (Olympic Gold Medal at Light Heavyweight 1960, Cassius Clay).

Haye is a natural heavyweight.

....The are both naturaly built bigger and stronger than Haye. Being 6'3 means nothing. He doesn't have a huge frame and he is no Evander Holyfield.

[Steelhammer86]

....The are both naturaly built bigger and stronger than Haye. Being 6'3 means nothing. He doesn't have a huge frame and he is no Evander Holyfield.

Haye just needs to add a little muscle. His frame and bone structure is naturally larger than Ibragimov and Chagaev (check them out on YouTube). Judging from what I've seen, the strength in his punches is probably already greater than most heavyweights.

[Derranged_]

Couple points on Haye: First, we haven't seen enough of him to realistically determine whether he could be a threat or bust at hw. He matched up well against Bonin and never let him recover after the first 'flash' knockdown and looked mighty impressive in his debut.

Second point is the same as the first one, we haven't seen enough of this guy to really judge how well he'd do against some of the bigger names in the division.
Even though I was fairly impressed, I'm not ready to crown this guy the next top contender of the division. Let's see how Haye does against some decent opponents who aren't as timid as Bonin was.

Also, just an aside, boxrec now has Haye ranked # 5 on the hw list! lol They're sure taking this hype thing to the next level!

[macman]

Lot of people have already made the point that he's bigger than Chagaev.

If Haye can pull of another impressive victory like Bonin & the hype continues,
chuck him in with Chagaev.

Personally doubt he'd make it past 8, but atleast it will sort out the hype.