WHY is this??

[THE REAL NINJA]

The haters seem to forget that Hopkins actually had one MORE fight on his resume at the time he fought Roy and over 20 total fights at the time, so the "he was green" arguement is pure b.S.! As for Toney, the haters say he was weight drained when he fought Roy, yet Roy wasn't weight drained against Tarver...LOL, you can't win with the haters is one thing i've learned, they are just huge hypocrites and you waste your time debating with them as they are so irrational.

Very true thanks .
I guess over all when being fair about it there is a pretty big list of men you could can P4P best.
You just can't pick one because the guy may have something that he didn't.
Ray Robinson just seems to have had 'by what we are told about his prime' the most tools.

From what we read his legend is that he had Roy Jones speed, Lacy power,Toney's ability to be calm and Winky defence.ect

You can just see him beating all but a handfull but at the same time at their best the same thing is true for all of these greats .


We will never know for sure who would be who and that's that .

[Red_Menace]

You can never compare fighters between eras directly.

I'm gonna use hockey as an example. Bobby Orr and Wayne Gretzky are commonly regarded as the best players in the history of the NHL. So, if you take Gretzky from 81-85 and put him in todays NHL, there will be a lot more parity between his skills and the current players. The current guys are better conditioned, have the benefit of another 20+ years of refinement in the game and come from better hockey programs than existed back in Wayne's day. So, if you could put Wayne in a time machine, he probably wouldn't do nearly as well in todays NHL, and there might be guys that would score more points then him. But that's not really the issue. If you look at Wayne Gretzky's record, it's not just the numbers he put up, but how far ahead he was of the competition. He completely revolutionized the way the game was played. For instance, in 1981-1982, Gretzky had 212 points and the next closest guy, Mike Bossy, had 147 points. Nowadays, the scoring leader is lucky if they have a 10 pt lead on the next guy.

That is the only way you can look at professional sports and have some sense of how great a player was: over the course of their career, how far did they stand above the competition. There is no way to come up with a 100% bulletproof answer, so these guys that say SRR is unarguably the best are full of ****. But it doesn't take that much to look at his record, watch some video and read up on what his opponents said about him, and realize how great he really was.

[siablo14]

Very true thanks .
I guess over all when being fair about it there is a pretty big list of men you could can P4P best.
You just can't pick one because the guy may have something that he didn't.
Ray Robinson just seems to have had 'by what we are told about his prime' the most tools.

From what we read his legend is that he had Roy Jones speed, Lacy power,Toney's ability to be calm and Winky defence.ect

You can just see him beating all but a handfull but at the same time at their best the same thing is true for all of these greats .


We will never know for sure who would be who and that's that .

srr got kd a good amount of time but he always got up and return the hurt and won, nowadays ppl would be saying he was chinny.

[THE REAL NINJA]

You can never compare fighters between eras directly.

I'm gonna use hockey as an example. Bobby Orr and Wayne Gretzky are commonly regarded as the best players in the history of the NHL. So, if you take Gretzky from 81-85 and put him in todays NHL, there will be a lot more parity between his skills and the current players. The current guys are better conditioned, have the benefit of another 20+ years of refinement in the game and come from better hockey programs than existed back in Wayne's day. So, if you could put Wayne in a time machine, he probably wouldn't do nearly as well in todays NHL, and there might be guys that would score more points then him. But that's not really the issue. If you look at Wayne Gretzky's record, it's not just the numbers he put up, but how far ahead he was of the competition. He completely revolutionized the way the game was played. For instance, in 1981-1982, Gretzky had 212 points and the next closest guy, Mike Bossy, had 147 points. Nowadays, the scoring leader is lucky if they have a 10 pt lead on the next guy.

That is the only way you can look at professional sports and have some sense of how great a player was: over the course of their career, how far did they stand above the competition. There is no way to come up with a 100% bulletproof answer, so these guys that say SRR is unarguably the best are full of ****. But it doesn't take that much to look at his record, watch some video and read up on what his opponents said about him, and realize how great he really was.

Pretty good way of looking at it .

I agree i'm the same way I've never been able to put together a list to rank the best heavyweights for that reason and because I've never seen some of the older guys.

I hate that no matter how fair I try to be Ali is just about unbeatable and Tyson can knock everyone out lol.
I think Roy would have beat Robinson and in my eyes they are neck and neck but Robinson is the same as Ali it's just hard to say that someone could be better then him.

srr got kd a good amount of time but he always got up and return the hurt and won, nowadays ppl would be saying he was chinny.

That's why I don't rate Marciano very high on the all time list .
I just can't see him taking shots from a Tyson,Lewis,Bowe,Klit,Foreman ect and keep getting up.
I also can't see him taking a flurry from Holyfield ,Holmes ect.

[EliteSoldier]

I think fantasy match ups are ******. Tyson vs Foreman... All this ****** ****, the fights never did happen and most of them weren't even in the same timeline. It's unfair to say who would win in marciano against ali and so on. They made that fake boxing thing awhile back where marciano had knocked out ali. Ali was mad about it, it was a ******ed biased fake made boxing film. But if ali was smart, he'd tell the truth and say honestly it's not fair to give either man an edge. Styles make fights and thats what make the outcomes come out in the end.

[siablo14]

Pretty good way of looking at it .

I agree i'm the same way I've never been able to put together a list to rank the best heavyweights for that reason and because I've never seen some of the older guys.

I hate that no matter how fair I try to be Ali is just about unbeatable and Tyson can knock everyone out lol.
I think Roy would have beat Robinson and in my eyes they are neck and neck but Robinson is the same as Ali it's just hard to say that someone could be better then him. That's why I don't rate Marciano very high on the all time list .
I just can't see him taking shots from a Tyson,Lewis,Bowe,Klit,Foreman ect and keep getting up.
I also can't see him taking a flurry from Holyfield ,Holmes ect.

i understand it is hard to make a judgement when upsets have happened in boxing, if douglas never fought tyson and defeated him when ppl would be looking back now they would simply pass over douglas name and say "tyson would have easily ko douglas but they fought and douglas won a huge upset, same case with baldomir - judah if they never fought and baldomir showed everyone that he could of defeated zab, ppl would be saying " there is no way baldomir could of defeated zab", so these boxing fans and so call purist speaking with with 100% confidence dat a certain fighter would of easily defeated a certain fighter needs to think before they speak.

[THE REAL NINJA]

I think fantasy match ups are ******. Tyson vs Foreman... All this ****** ****, the fights never did happen and most of them weren't even in the same timeline. It's unfair to say who would win in marciano against ali and so on. They made that fake boxing thing awhile back where marciano had knocked out ali. Ali was mad about it, it was a ******ed biased fake made boxing film. But if ali was smart, he'd tell the truth and say honestly it's not fair to give either man an edge. Styles make fights and thats what make the outcomes come out in the end.

I just tell people when they ask what the most probable outcomes would be .
I don't care for lets say John L Sullivan vs Lennox Lewis or any other 100 year span match up.

There are still a lot of dream fights where you pretty much know who would win say Ali vs Ruiz but like you said most of the time there is no telling .