Roy Jones Jr calls out Calzaghe

[!!! Beowulf !!!]

Another sweeping Generalisation with little substance.

So you are saying American fans 'root for black fighters' based on their skin colour?

I wrote "many", not "all". Hence it is not a generalisation.


I believe that it is sufficiently obvious that black Americans dominate US Boxing and have done for some time. The best and the most hyped American fighters are black and this seems to have created a connection between the US Boxing fan and the black pugilist, with black fighters looking and speaking the way that many Americans have come to expect a fighter to do. In days past American fight fans worshipped the tough ***ish and Irish-American fighters, unfairly excluding black fighters from the reckoning, now the tables have turned.

[Technical_Skill]

I wrote "many", not "all". Hence it is not a generalisation.


I believe that it is sufficiently obvious that black Americans dominate US Boxing and have done for some time. The best and the most hyped American fighters are black and this seems to have created a connection between the US Boxing fan and the black pugilist, with black fighters looking and speaking the way that many Americans have come to expect a fighter to do. In days past American fight fans worshipped the tough ***ish and Irish-American fighters, unfairly excluding black fighters from the reckoning, now the tables have turned.

What you said in your last post was wrong and unfounded

HOWEVER,

are you trying to say that there is a stereotype that Black fighters are better than white fighters?

because that is a valid point.

PS. you dont know 'many' US boxing fans personally, so you are making a generalisation.

[dino]

styles make fights, and actually even a old roy jones could possibly beat calzaghe because calzaghe dosent have knockout power

[!!! Beowulf !!!]

What you said in your last post was wrong and unfounded

HOWEVER,

are you trying to say that there is a stereotype that Black fighters are better than white fighters?

because that is a valid point.

I think perhaps that blanket dismissal of my post at the start of yours is fairly contradictory given the rest of your post.


My point was that the average US fight fan, maybe unconsciously buys into such a stereotype and thus they offer more support and credibility to black fighters.

In Europe at this time there is more ethnic diversity in the field of Boxing (ironic given that the US is a more diverse place than any single European country), and thus no "ideal" sterotypical fighter.

[.Mik.]

This is true, Americans always shows more respect then the Europeans do.

True, but at the end of the day, its showing respect to a song. Now, admittedly, you guys love that song because it means so much more to you than that, it represents honour and freedom and the american way etc etc. To generalise, in the UK, we dont even respect our own national anthem. Its about what a wonderful woman our Queen is which simply does not have many positive connotations for many people any more. They cant relate to it. Maybe when she dies, if we (hopefully) get a different national anthem, one that celebrates our land and our people and something that the majority of English citizens actually care about for a ****ing change, we might start showing a bit more respect to others.

Note, I am not defending people who boo national anthems. I think that it is a pointless and disrespectful act. I am instead merely trying to demonstrate why you think that booing a national anthem is a much bigger deal than I think it is.

Yeah but Calzaghe's hands are brittle, and he cuffs alot, as the Manfredo fight shows,

If Jones can retain the reflexes he had years ago, then stylically its in his favor, he is by far the better counter puncher, punching from unorthodox angles and also at different times, he throws unorthodox cominbinations, eg, 4left hooks in a row instead of left hook, right hook, and it's just really hard to time roy jones in General.

Having said that, Calzaghe is the deffo the favorite in this stage at thier carrers.

Calzaghe's hands are brittle, sometimes. Sometimes even after the toughest fights, he doesnt have much problem with them. He cuffs a lot because he throws so many punches that some are bound not to land properly.

The people who think that RJJ will win seem to be hinging their opinions on the fact that he still retains some of the skills he had in his prime. I dont know why people would think that, I certainly havent seen much evidence of it in his past few fights. Admittedly, if he has retained his handspeed, power and counter-punching ability, he might be in with an outside chance against Calzaghe. Even then I'd still give it a 70% - 30% call to Calzaghe though, who hasnt showed any signs of ageing yet.

Last time I checked the reason many don't respect him is because he never fought once in America, he's been fighting C level boxers all of his career, in his last 20 fights his best 3 wins are old Eubank, Robin Reid which half of the people thought he lost and an overhyped Jeff Lacy.

I don't think you're racist, but you are obsessed with race!

I wish that you would stop generalising things as though they were true. Lacy being overhyped doesnt mean that he was a C level fighter. Just because he was old doesnt mean that Eubank wasnt in great shape and was not still a very high level opponent. The Reid result was NOT contentious, end of story.

Another sweeping Generalisation with little substance.

So you are saying American fans 'root for black fighters' based on their skin colour?

There may be an element of truth to that, in a purely non-racist and non-discriminatory way. The fact that black people have dominated the sport for so long inevitably means that black audiences are attracted to the sport more than they are to sports where black people do not dominate. Its not a discrimination thing, its just true, generalisms are. Same as the musical genre of choice for black youths (not STRICTLY black youths, but it is another true generalism) is hip hop or r'n'b, genres popularly dominated by black artists and supported by black audiences.

It may not happen all the time and it may not automatically mean that black people will always look to denigrate white fighters, but it is ignorant to think that it simply does not happen whatsoever.

[Technical_Skill]

I think perhaps that blanket dismissal of my post at the start of yours is fairly contradictory given the rest of your post.


My point was that the average US fight fan, maybe unconsciously buys into such a stereotype and thus they offer more support and credibility to black fighters.

So youv'e pretty much said there, what i just said a above,

a change from what you first said, because you have removed the Generalisations by carefully adding words such as 'maybe' in your post lol.

It's cool buddy, i aint tryin to play the race card, your entitled to your opinion,

gotta dash into this other thread quickly lol.

[!!! Beowulf !!!]

What you said in your last post was wrong and unfounded

HOWEVER,

are you trying to say that there is a stereotype that Black fighters are better than white fighters?

because that is a valid point.

PS. you dont know 'many' US boxing fans personally, so you are making a generalisation.

I know many American Boxing fans and their attitudes through the internet and have also lived in the United States.

You may not have grasped the meaning behind the word "generalisation. Maybe a brief re-cap is in order.

Statement A: "All the German people collaborated in Hitler's genocidal schemes".

Statement B: "Many German people collaborated in Hitler's genocidal schemes".



Statement A is an unfair generalisation. Statement B is not a generalisation. The word "many" does not have the same meaning as the word "most". Many can mean a sizeable minority, whereas most would mean a flat out majority of people.

[DeathFromAbove]

Not warfare son. Just classless for another country's people to boo another's national anthem. Americans sit quietly through the Canadian anthem all the time. People gotta grow up a little bit.

RJJ still has some quicks and power, JC style would be a test though. It would make for a curious matchup.

i find it hard to belive no one in the US has never booed at someone elses national anthem considering your the most xenophobic country in the entire world. This stuff happens the world over why is anyone surprized or bothered

[.Mik.]

styles make fights, and actually even a old roy jones could possibly beat calzaghe because calzaghe dosent have knockout power

And yet Calzaghe had scored 32 KO's out of his 43 victories (which compares rather similarly with Roy's 38 KO's from 50 wins.

Glen Johnson, with less KO's than Calzaghe, with more wins.

Antonio Tarver, less wins than KO's Calzaghe has had...with a similar KO ratio however.

BOTH of whom did not have particularly many recent out-and-out KOs previous to the Jones fight.

I dont really see where your statement comes from.

[Technical_Skill]

I know many American Boxing fans and their attitudes through the internet and have also lived in the United States.

You may not have grasped the meaning behind the word "generalisation. Maybe a brief re-cap is in order.

Statement A: "All the German people collaborated in Hitler's genocidal schemes".

Statement B: "Many German people collaborated in Hitler's genocidal schemes".



Statement A is an unfair generalisation. Statement B is not a generalisation. The word "many" does not have the same meaning as the word "most". Many can mean a sizeable minority, whereas most would mean a flat out majority of people.

Actually im doing a dissertation right now on the Holocast etc LMAO.

No i think you need to brush up on your understanding mate,

they are BOTH generalisations.

Lets not get into the Genocidal debate, i was being nice to you by not wanting to point out anymore flaw in what you said, and cos im posting somewhere else as well.