Shall We Embrace The Chase of Valuev?

[Steelhammer86]

As great as he was, the Rock fought a LOT of people who were long past it.

Marciano fought the best there was at the time, he didn't pad his record by fighting lower-ranked boxers (Beck, Barrett) like Valuev has.

Roland LaStarza, Archie Moore, and Ezzard Charles were all rated #1 contenders when Marciano fought them (see Ring Magazine: October 1953, August 1954 and August 1955 issues).

Yes, Joe Louis was past his prime when Marciano beat him, but he was still ranked #2 contender with Marciano ranked #3 (see Ring Magazine: August 1951 issue). Louis had only lost one fight in ten years.

And Marciano convincingly defeated his opponents, he wasn't given gifts like Valuev was with Donald.

[.Mik.]

Marciano fought the best there was at the time, he didn't pad his record by fighting lower-ranked boxers (Beck, Barrett) like Valuev has.

Roland LaStarza, Archie Moore, and Ezzard Charles were all rated #1 contenders when Marciano fought them (see Ring Magazine: October 1953, August 1954 and August 1955 issues).

Yes, Joe Louis was past his prime when Marciano beat him, but he was still ranked #2 contender with Marciano ranked #3 (see Ring Magazine: August 1951 issue). Louis had only lost one fight in ten years.

And Marciano convincingly defeated his opponents, he wasn't given gifts like Valuev was with Donald.

...Louis has been RETIRED for most of those 10 years. Seriously man, the reason that some of the guys Marciano fought were ranked as top contenders against him was because of the fact that there was no strength in depth of the heavyweight division of those days, even compared to today. The fighters Marciano beat were great...in their prime. But he didnt really fight any of them in their prime. Thats not taking away from his exceptional achievement. To remain undefeated is one of the most difficult things in boxing and deserves huge respect, because boxing is a sport where you lose your concentration for a fraction of a second and you've lost. But Valuev's achievements are not incomparable with Marciano's. Especially if he takes on maybe two or three of the current top guys (both Klit's, Peter etc) and remains undefeated.

[Steelhammer86]

Marciano was one of the greatest ever!

Miksterious wrote:
"Seriously man, the reason that some of the guys Marciano fought were ranked as top contenders against him was because of the fact that there was no strength in depth of the heavyweight division of those days, even compared to today. The fighters Marciano beat were great...in their prime. But he didnt really fight any of them in their prime."

Roland LaStarza was 26 when he fought Marciano, how is that not a prime age? Ezzard Charles was 33,
close to the same age as Rocky. They were #1 ranked contenders in their prime!

Rocky was one of the greatest heavyweights of all time.

[.Mik.]

How many fights did you just name there? 4?

Ezzard Charles had lost 2 of his last 4 fights before fighting Marciano. He had Marciano in severe trouble. The best days of his career were behind him.

Roland LaStarza was a legitimate fighter at a legitimate time in his career and it was a damn close fight.

But thats only two opponents you're naming there and neither of them are particularly considered high on the 'Greatest Heavyweights of all time' list. They wouldn't even make the top 30. I'm not trying to belittle Marciano's achievements. His consistency and ability to drag out wins was incredible. But his competition was NOT.

If Valuev fights a couple of genuine top guys, then he will be in the same boat. Like it or not.

[Steelhammer86]

neither of them are particularly considered high on the 'Greatest Heavyweights of all time' list. They wouldn't even make the top 30.

Valuev's last three opponents haven't been in the top thousand of all time - Beck, Barrett, McCline?

But my point is that Marciano never avoided anybody. He fought the best there was at the time, the top rated boxers, while Valuev has padded his record.

[me2007]

Marciano was in serious trouble against charles in the sense that his nose was badly cut. Marciano was clearly dominating charles with brute force and intensity throughout the fight and dropped him twice.

Lastarza was beaten twice and dropped in both fights...

Valuev is nowhere near Marciano in any sense.

Marciano overcame physical shortcomings to be the best...Valuev has a massive physical advantage over his opponents and still looks terrible against no hopers.

If Marciano was a foot taller and 200lbs heavier then he could have beaten anyone in any era.

[JakeNDaBox]

Valuev's opponents haven't been in the top thousand of all time - Beck, Barrett, McCline?

But my point is that Marciano never avoided anybody, he fought the best there was, while Valuev has padded his record.

this is a fair point

[Run]

If Marciano was a foot taller and 200lbs heavier then he could have beaten anyone in any era.

I think he could have been ten feet taller, and a thousand pounds heavier.

Doesn't change the fact that Ali would just clown and rope a dope him because he's just not on his level in any way shape or form.

Nowhere near.



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[.Mik.]

I'm not saying that Valuev should be considered as good a fighter as Marciano. I'm saying that breaks Marciano's record BY FIGHTING TWO OR THREE OF THE GENUINE TOP GUYS IN THE CURRENT HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION (I cannot stress this enough as people responding to me seem to be blissfully unaware of this condition that I keep mentioning), it should be recognised and celebrated, not cast aside by people who dont want to believe that it was credible.

Marciano's record was also padded, the big names on his record were past their best. The division he dominated was no stronger in depth than it is today.

[Steelhammer86]

Valuev is nowhere near Marciano in any sense.

Marciano overcame physical shortcomings to be the best...Valuev has a massive physical advantage over his opponents and still looks terrible against no hopers.

If Marciano was a foot taller and 200lbs heavier then he could have beaten anyone in any era.

Good comments!