Who in your opinion is currently the best supermiddle weight

[TheEvilSaint]

kessler is the best but only because calzaghe is past his prime.

[.Mik.]

To be the man, you've got to beat the man.

Nobody on that list would be able to cope with Calzaghe's work-rate. Its like nothing they'll have experienced before in their career.

[Welter_Skelter]

Calzaghe is STILL the best.. But Its not Kessler who is the future.. It's Froch..
laugh if you must.. But we shall see eh?

[dumdane]

To be the man, you've got to beat the man.

Nobody on that list would be able to cope with Calzaghe's work-rate. Its like nothing they'll have experienced before in their career.

So who did Calzaghe beat to become the man?


This whole "You have to beat the man to become the man" setup only works, if "the man" actually has a set of cojones.
If not - then being the man is not the same as being the best. And this tread was about who's the best.

[.Mik.]

Calzaghe is STILL the best.. But Its not Kessler who is the future.. It's Froch..
laugh if you must.. But we shall see eh?

It could be either, to be perfectly honest.

So who did Calzaghe beat to become the man?


This whole "You have to beat the man to become the man" setup only works, if "the man" actually has a set of cojones.
If not - then being the man is not the same as being the best. And this tread was about who's the best.

He won his title at a time where there WAS no stand-out 'man'. He became the man by beating Chris Eubank, by defeating a top contender in Robin Reid, by defending it against anyone who had a legitimate shout against him for a number of years at the time like David Starie, Omar Sheika, Richie Woodhall, Mario Veit, Byron Mitchell...then when there came a time where people started believing that he wasnt 'the man' and that someone else was...he fought and beat him too by crushing Jeff Lacy. At the moment, as this poll proves, he is still the man (compare it to before he fought Lacy where the vast majority had a Lacy knockout prediction).

Kessler also won a vacant title. He won it in the time where there WAS a man (Calzaghe) and he didnt fight him to become the man. Now that it looks like the tide may be turning and people are starting to favour Kessler over Calzaghe (compared to this time 6 months ago anyway), it looks likely that they will fight again and perhaps Kessler will become the man to beat then. Or maybe Calzaghe will prove once again why he created the most credible title in the division.

[dumdane]

Kessler also won a vacant title.

No Kessler didn't win a vacant title. I think your maybe confusing him with Lacy here, who also won a vacant title. But both Kessler's titles were won by beating a defending champ.
Now before we get into an argument about this, I'll readily admit that the fighter faught for a vacant title can easily be as good as the defending champ. Just pointing out a factual mistake.

He won it in the time where there WAS a man (Calzaghe) and he didnt fight him to become the man. Now that it looks like the tide may be turning and people are starting to favour Kessler over Calzaghe (compared to this time 6 months ago anyway),

Sufficient to say, that i find the concept of being "the man" utterly pointless, unless you're at the same time considered "the best". And as you correctly point out an increasing amount of ppl (not yet a majority) these days are perhaps swinging towards believing Kessler is "the best".

it looks likely that they will fight again and perhaps Kessler will become the man to beat then. Or maybe Calzaghe will prove once again why he created the most credible title in the division

It may be that Calzaghe will take the fight, end all speculation and prove himself the best.
But i find it more likely, that he is content thinking of himself as "the man", even if more and more ppl no longer consider him "the best". I don't expect Calzaghe/warren to ever seriously push for a Kessler fight.

[King Koyle]

As of right now,I would have to say Calzaghe.

[.Mik.]

No Kessler didn't win a vacant title. I think your maybe confusing him with Lacy here, who also won a vacant title. But both Kessler's titles were won by beating a defending champ.
Now before we get into an argument about this, I'll readily admit that the fighter faught for a vacant title can easily be as good as the defending champ. Just pointing out a factual mistake.

Really?

Then I must apologize, Boxrec claims that his fought Dingaan Thobela for the vacant IBA Super Middleweight title, which was his first title win. Then he fought Craig Cummings and Henry Porras (interestingly someone who Froch blitzed away too) in eliminators for the vacant WBC Super Middleweight title. He did win the WBA title legitimately of course, but with all due respect Manny Siaca is no Chris Eubank. Even Byron Mitchell, blown away Calzaghe in two rounds twice defeated him. So he never really beat anyone approaching 'the man' to win any of his titles.

Thats not to say that he isnt a respectable champion at all. But it really is an indication of just how easy it is to discredit someone's fights by using the good-old triangular logic that goes around this place.

[dumdane]

Really?

Then I must apologize, Boxrec claims that his fought Dingaan Thobela for the vacant IBA Super Middleweight title, which was his first title win. Then he fought Craig Cummings and Henry Porras (interestingly someone who Froch blitzed away too) in eliminators for the vacant WBC Super Middleweight title. He did win the WBA title legitimately of course, but with all due respect Manny Siaca is no Chris Eubank. Even Byron Mitchell, blown away Calzaghe in two rounds twice defeated him. So he never really beat anyone approaching 'the man' to win any of his titles.

Thats not to say that he isnt a respectable champion at all. But it really is an indication of just how easy it is to discredit someone's fights by using the good-old triangular logic that goes around this place.

You got me there. I did not count those other meaningless titles he may have fought for in his earlier days. But of course you're right, as it is up to the individual to decide which titles are at all to be considered relevant.
Anyway (not that i think you don't know what i meant) to explain things, I was referring to the WBA and WBC titles, where he beat a defending champ, as opposed to Calzaghe and Lacy who fought for vacant spots, when getting their WBO and IBF titles.

[hugh grant]

So by that reconning, all that Calzaghe needs to do to remain the best/the man at SMW, is NOT to take the fight with Kessler - no matter what.

Yeah - it's sure gonna be easy (not being british) to respect Calzaghe based on that.

Or maybe Kessler doesnt have to box Joe. But he should box the same type calibre opponents Joe has boxed and beat them. Outclass a highly rated opponent like Joe did against Lacy. After Kessler has done that hopefully the so called boxing experts might put Kessler above Joe in the p4p rankings without haven to have beat Joe and that is an alternative way Kessler could be regarded as the top supermiddle on paper, without having to fight Joe.
But while Joe is above Kessler in the ratings he is the man, and whether you or i like that isnt the point. That is the way it is and how it works in the real world.