Edison Miranda is a middleweight ricardo mayorga

[Kid Achilles]

All that matters in boxing in the complete package. A good boxer is a successful one. Miranda obviously has the ability to fight at the level he's been fighting, and succeed against so called "superior" boxers, just as Taylor obviously has the ability to handle those who we would consider more skillful at first glance (Hopkins and Wright).

Skill means absolutely ****all when you're looking up at the ref while he counts you out.

Inner strength is something more valuable in boxing than any learned athletic skill and Miranda has it in spades. His knockout punch is an additional credit to his name. He has passable skill, but truth be told he could be even cruder than he is and still get by by punching power and heart alone, as Mayorga did. Mayorga would have continued to be successful but he moved up in weight and nullified his power. This did him in more than a lack of skill. His unorthodox approach to the sport is what made him successful. He'd be a 2nd rate fighter if he attempted to trade jabs and stright rights with Vernon Forrest.

Boxing is far too complicated a sport to analyze fighters by skill alone.

[Pantera2000]

All that matters in boxing in the complete package. A good boxer is a successful one. Miranda obviously has the ability to fight at the level he's been fighting, and succeed against so called "superior" boxers, just as Taylor obviously has the ability to handle those who we would consider more skillful at first glance (Hopkins and Wright).

Skill means absolutely ****all when you're looking up at the ref while he counts you out.

Inner strength is something more valuable in boxing than any learned athletic skill and Miranda has it in spades. His knockout punch is an additional credit to his name. He has passable skill, but truth be told he could be even cruder than he is and still get by by punching power and heart alone, as Mayorga did. Mayorga would have continued to be successful but he moved up in weight and nullified his power. This did him in more than a lack of skill. His unorthodox approach to the sport is what made him successful. He'd be a 2nd rate fighter if he attempted to trade jabs and stright rights with Vernon Forrest.

Boxing is far too complicated a sport to analyze fighters by skill alone.

I couldnt have said it any better. Heart is 75% of boxing. Your skills are not going to take you far if the guy your fighting has more heart and desire than you. Miranda will never be a skillful boxer. But he has some skill, unconventional approach, huge desire, and the biggest heart I have seen. I'd put that against any skill you got!

[Njord777]

There have been greedy, self-absorbed, jaded champions in boxing for years now. Men who didn't have heart to win- they had heart to get more money, get more fame, be bigger stars. Their hunger came not from "heart" in the sense that they could get off the canvas and win out of desire, but because they wanted all the perks being a champion got you. They wanted the money, women, etc. Some champions had amazing skill- but not heart in the sense of a fighter who is willing to die in the ring. I know you can think of champions who obviously loved being on top, and were amazing fighters, but whom just didn't appear to have that desire spoken of here.

Current example; How about pound for pound champion of the entire sport of boxing, Floyd Mayweather Jr. ? We have yet to see if he would get off the canvas and keep going, keep moving forward or trying to get in combos even when bleeding and battered- yet his skill has carried him to the top.

My point is we should never downplay skill for heart. I agree desire and "heart" are important to being a boxer- but I wouldn't go so far as to say they're 75% of the sport. I mean again, look at Mayweather. Who has more heart? Floyd Mayweather or Carlos Baldomir? Most would say the cindarella man from Argentina, who once sold feather dusters to feed his family, is all heart. What happened when heart went against skill, though? Skill- maybe even in the vehicle of a greedy, egotistical, heartless fighter (as some portray him) triumphed over heart.

What do I mean, then? I mean I agree that Miranda has heart, and I agree he is far superior to Mayorga but I disagree that his burning desire and fighting spirit can cover his flaws. Not forever. I love him to death but I disagree that heart is the most important thing in boxing. I love, as we all do, a fighter's spirit- a Gatti who will bleed and die in that ring for the sheer chance of winning a fight...but you put a Gatti against a boxing prodigy who has buckets of sheer ability and no heart...and I'll still pick skill.

It's the sad truth of the world. It's why professional sports has people like Terrel Owens, Allen Iverson and maybe Floyd Mayweather Jr. Because skill can make you a star, make you excel, even if your focus isn't on being the best for any reason other than to have nice cars and hordes of women- and that isn't what we mean when we say a fighter has heart. You can't have what Miranda has just by wanting to sleep with nice looking girls...you have to love the sport....and some athletes can have zero respect for their sport and still be amazing.

[Kid Achilles]

Not a good example because Mayweather has heart, maybe not as much as Baldomir, but he has heart, he trains as hard as anyone, and on top of that he was head and shoulders above Baldomir in ability as well as skill. Obviously heart alone isn't going to win a fight against a foe who's talented, skilled and disciplined, but it helped him beat the hell out of Judah, who had skill and talent on him.

Also there is no one in the middleweight division who has that much of a skill advantage on Miranda, certainly not Taylor.

[Njord777]

Mayweather has heart, maybe not as much as Baldomir, but he has heart, he trains as hard as anyone, and on top of that he was head and shoulders above Baldomir in ability as well as skill. Obviously heart alone isn't going to win a fight against a foe who's talented, skilled and disciplined, but it helped him beat the hell out of Judah, who had skill and talent on him.

Also there is no one in the middleweight division who has that much of a skill advantage on Miranda, certainly not Taylor.

While I understand, respect, and even somewhat agree with what you're saying- I don't think we can stress heart as doing anything but giving one fighter a slight advantage over another- not as the driving force behind a good fighter. I think Mayweather is motivated but he has time and again proven he fights for his ego and his bank account. Why didn't he get involved in the brawl with Judah - because, as he said, "I ain't fitting to **** up my money." I like Mayweather but he doesn't have the heart you spoke of Miranda having- not the way I see it. He is very motivated for his own personal reasons- ego, money, etc. Not because he loves boxing so much he is willing to die in that ring. Mayweather is not that type of person. Not based on what he has shown thus far.

[the_truth_1984]

Miranda is a much better boxer than Mayorga.I also think that he will have a much better career than Mayorga did.

[Pantera2000]

There have been greedy, self-absorbed, jaded champions in boxing for years now. Men who didn't have heart to win- they had heart to get more money, get more fame, be bigger stars. Their hunger came not from "heart" in the sense that they could get off the canvas and win out of desire, but because they wanted all the perks being a champion got you. They wanted the money, women, etc. Some champions had amazing skill- but not heart in the sense of a fighter who is willing to die in the ring. I know you can think of champions who obviously loved being on top, and were amazing fighters, but whom just didn't appear to have that desire spoken of here.

Current example; How about pound for pound champion of the entire sport of boxing, Floyd Mayweather Jr. ? We have yet to see if he would get off the canvas and keep going, keep moving forward or trying to get in combos even when bleeding and battered- yet his skill has carried him to the top.

My point is we should never downplay skill for heart. I agree desire and "heart" are important to being a boxer- but I wouldn't go so far as to say they're 75% of the sport. I mean again, look at Mayweather. Who has more heart? Floyd Mayweather or Carlos Baldomir? Most would say the cindarella man from Argentina, who once sold feather dusters to feed his family, is all heart. What happened when heart went against skill, though? Skill- maybe even in the vehicle of a greedy, egotistical, heartless fighter (as some portray him) triumphed over heart.

What do I mean, then? I mean I agree that Miranda has heart, and I agree he is far superior to Mayorga but I disagree that his burning desire and fighting spirit can cover his flaws. Not forever. I love him to death but I disagree that heart is the most important thing in boxing. I love, as we all do, a fighter's spirit- a Gatti who will bleed and die in that ring for the sheer chance of winning a fight...but you put a Gatti against a boxing prodigy who has buckets of sheer ability and no heart...and I'll still pick skill.

It's the sad truth of the world. It's why professional sports has people like Terrel Owens, Allen Iverson and maybe Floyd Mayweather Jr. Because skill can make you a star, make you excel, even if your focus isn't on being the best for any reason other than to have nice cars and hordes of women- and that isn't what we mean when we say a fighter has heart. You can't have what Miranda has just by wanting to sleep with nice looking girls...you have to love the sport....and some athletes can have zero respect for their sport and still be amazing.

Good points. There is obviously a formula where skill overcomes heart on any level. But Mayweahter skill and Pavlik/Taylor skill are worlds apart IMO. Like you said about the middleweight division, there is no master of the art. So in Miranda's case, his pure desire and heart can take him to the top. I do however think his skills are also not far behind the current champ's!

[Njord777]

Good points. There is obviously a formula where skill overcomes heart on any level. But Mayweahter skill and Pavlik/Taylor skill are worlds apart IMO. Like you said about the middleweight division, there is no master of the art. So in Miranda's case, his pure desire and heart can take him to the top. I do however think his skills are also not far behind the current champ's!

I can agree with that I was just responding to sentiments that heart is the majority of the sport. If that were the case we would have well intentioned amateurs running around as champions because they had giant desire. Skill is the vehicle that drives the sport, heart is just that little extra intangible that pushes one of two similarly skilled fighters past the other.

[AllEyesOpen]

Also there is no one in the middleweight division who has that much of a skill advantage on Miranda, certainly not Taylor.

That's what I was thinking, besides the fact that he has much more fundamental skills then Mayorga, there no one in the MW division who's the complete package, & although on his best day Taylor probably could win a one-sided decision, any other day he could easily get KO'ed, & if he came out going for the KO like he did against Ouma, then I'd give him even less chance of winning.

[Animal Squabbs]

well for being a ****ty boxer he has done pretty well for himself. He needs to beat Pavlik and then he will be fighting Taylor. Miranda has the heart and determination to be the champ. His boxing skills will only get better and once he faces Taylor, he will give Taylor the toughest fight of his life.

the Miranda vs Pavlik fight does NOT make ANY sense, first off it doesnt even matter cause Pavlik is going to get embarassed. Allan Green is a better prospect than Pavlik so Miranda is actually taking a step down before the Taylor fight. Plus, why would they have Miranda beat all the possible contenders before getting a shot. Instead of having three young up and comin contenders (Pavlik, Green, Miranda) so they can go at Taylor one at a time and if Pavlik loses to Taylor, then hey "how will Miranda do", they have one in Miranda and when he loses to Taylor whos gonna wanna see Pavlik or Green who couldnt beat Miranda.