Tweet
I heard that Mike at one time was worth 400 million dollars and now is in debt.. How the fuc* does that happen?
-
-
Tyson:
Atlas: “Tyson lacked heart”, well you are wrong Teddy. Tyson may had confidence issues when he was with you, which was when he was a rookie kid who was going up against more experienced amateurs, but that is what repetition/fights/experience is supposed to do, build CONFIDENCE. Tyson and Rooney explained these themselves when Mike went up against Tillis: Mike lowered his punch out-put after the mid rounds because he (Tyson) was not sure if he could go the distance. Therefore, Mike lowered his punch out-put to extend the fight. By the time he reached the 11th/12th round, he said to himself, “I have enough left, this isn’t so bad”, and that is why he finished strong at the very end. After that fight, Mike’s confidence went up because he now knew he could go the distance. Winning the “Heavyweight Championship” also builds your confidence.
“Tyson fought nobody in his prime”: this is both overrated and underrated. Tyson did fight some quality fighters but none that were truly “Elite” Heavyweight like a Lennox Lewis or an Evander Holyfield. However, Lennox was busy trying to win Gold while Mike was winning the HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP. I would say if Mike and Lennox fought when Mike had just won the title, I would favor Mike; especially given Lennox had many holes that would not be filled until later with help from Emanuel. I would also favor a prime/motivated/Rooney-Tyson over Evander.
Let us get back to Mike’s opponents.
Holmes: Past his prime, true, but Mike beat the **** out of him and knocked him out cold; something nobody would do, including Evander, much later. Even still, this is victory is overrated because Holmes was past his prime, even if he would have a good career afterwards against very good opposition.
Spinks: Best win on his resume. Spinks is one of the greatest light-heavyweights in history. He was undefeated, never knocked down, won the HW title, and was in very good form. Spinks was KTFO by Tyson in the first round. Yes, we are talking about a former LH, but I say this: Spinks was more of a Cruiserweight, and second, Rocky Marciano made his name beating LH, who was in fact past their primes/old, shot, etc. Tyson however, beat Spinks, who was one of the best LH in history, when he was still fresh.
Overrated victory: Spinks moved up from LH. If you judge history like this however, we have to rethink the whole landscape of boxing wins.
To long to go into the other victories, but one that sticks out is Razor Ruddock. Tyson would come back after a devastating loss to Douglas, without Rooney, and beat a prime Ruddock, twice. Ruddock himself claims this took a lot out of Tyson and himself.
Douglas loss:
Argument for Tyson: Tyson did not train as he used to. Was not motivated. Preferred partying and chasing beaver instead of fighting. He thought he could stare Douglas down and the fight would be over. Well, it did not work. Tyson was still a young kid who lost just about everybody he could trust. He was participating in a sport/business that was full of corruption, and did not seem to handle it well. In your early 20’s, how many people can handle this ****?
Douglas was a 6’4, 230+ pound Heavyweight who had very good skill, but lacked the discipline and motivation to want to be a top fighter, at least up until 4 or 5 fights before meeting Tyson when he got motivated and earned himself a shot. Douglas was more motivated than ever when he stepped into the ring with Tyson: he came in the best shape of his life, wanted to prove to his father he could do it, wanted to prove to himself he could do it, and most of all, he wanted to win for his beloved mother who had past away.
It also helped that Tyson was unmotivated and did not give a **** anymore.
Against: Being a Champion is about getting yourself motivated, staying in top shape, never underestimating your opponent, etc.
Tyson should have never got rid of Rooney this was a big mistake. He should have never let King dictate, nor let him even into his camp; Vital mistake.
This much can be said, Tyson in his prime (which was up until the Spinks fight, with Rooney), trained hard as hell, stayed motivated, displayed an incredible ability to put punches in combinations like a middle-weight, had incredibly hand speed which were not flurry punches, they were bombs, had a great chin, good ability to move with his feet (unlike a lot of other heavyweights), was incredibly elusive (which was part of his defense), and showed a killer instinct that would be part of his Psychological Warfare and Entertaining value to lure fans (who had strayed from the HW scene), back into the seats.Comment
-
How much did he get after taxes, after King, after his wives, after the **** trial, etc.?
Even still, 30% of 400 million is a lot of money to blow.
He did do some good things with the money so it wasn't all bad.
His kids are supposedly setup nicely, so he won in the end.
Mike's mistake was leaving "Team Tyson", Rooney and Cayton were left, that was all he needed to stay on track and in control. However, how much breathing room did they give Mike?Comment
-
The jab is an incredible weapon, but can sometimes be matched with speed, elusiveness, and power. Tyson had all.
If you jab, you leave yourself open to be countered by someone like Tyson: Opponent jabs, Tyson gets underneath, up, and around with the left hook, and BAM! right on your chin.
Tyson displayed a nice jab himself and even started to out-jab the taller Tucker. I think it was Tucker, have to go back and check.
Tyson's jab was incredibly fast when he used it. When Rooney told him to use it, he did. What beats a jab from your opponent, your own.
Holmes also liked to drop his left, which would be the right hand counter by Tyson, as explained by Atlas when talking about what Cus told him and Tyson on how to beat Holmes. This would be displayed against Holmes in the first knock-down of the fight, with Holmes being the one on the canvas.
Ali was vulnerable to the left hook. A punch Mike was great a throwing.
Lewis, taller fighters can have trouble with defense, and pressure. Lewis also could get tagged and knocked out.
All fighters can lose, and this includes Tyson.Comment
-
You cant argue Mike as the best cos he never fought elite fighters and lost when he was past his best or didnt train properly. I understand Tyson fans cos the same **** applies when I try telling people how good Hamed was.Comment
-
Yes, but all you mentioned above could also lose to Tyson.
For the Douglas fight: this isn't an excuse for him, only and understanding as to why he lost, Tyson ****ed up on his own merit.
"He couldn't find his timing": No ****, this happens when you don't train and are going up against a trained fighter that has been preparing for you.
So many people like to use the Douglas fight, but the one argument against Tyson in this case should be this, That Tyson failed mentally at being the Heavyweight Champion of the world at such a young age. Making horrible decisions to get rid of Cayton and Rooney, to not train, to underestimate his opponent, etc. That is all Tyson's doing.
Lets not forget, Tyson did want the rematch, and from what I read, Douglas out-priced himself wanting $20 million for the fight. Douglas knew he got lucky and was trying to cash out. Everybody around the scene knew what was going on with Tyson and his partying.
Douglas was smart though, he got $24 million to fight Holyfield.
Douglas would also show up out of shape and unmotivated, funny.
Oh, one more thing, stop with Marciano: the guy fought past prime fighters that were LH and had been knocked out many times before, yet somehow he is favored over a prime Tyson
I love Louis, but the guy showed a vulnerable chin at times and even said himself that he had trouble with Billy Conn's "Speed". If he though Conn was fast, and could be hurt by him, Tyson has a chance, wouldn't you say?
But I will agree with you here, "if Buster Douglas did it, they could":
Yes, this version of Tyson that went up against Tyson could be beaten; Bravo my friend, Bravo.
Ali was your best pick. Ali was just something else. His ability to endure pain, his incredible smarts, speed, ability, etc. Just amazing.
If Tyson were to beat Ali in a "fantasy fight", he would need the help of Cus D'amato to draw up the strategy.Comment
-
I never aruged Tyson was the best, he wasn't. Bottom line, no matter how good he was when with Rooney, he failed when he tried to take his career in his own hands. I like to think that I know why he failed, but the fact that he failed, is the main point.
This goes for Lewis as well. I like Lewis, but his main win in my opinion is making Bowe retreat from a fight. His victory over Tyson and Holyfield were not that great, and I wonder what a fight Prime vs. Prime, who would come out with the Win.
Hamed, he should of taken his career more seriously as well. According to Emanuel, Hamed listend to the Puerto Rican over him. That is Hamed's fault.
He also broke down mentally after his loss. Hamed had skill, but he had less ability than Tyson, and did less than Tyson in my opinion.
Hamed should have had one trainer, Emanuel, and that is it.Comment
-
I'm a very strong believer that prime Holyfield beats Tyson. No way in hell would Tyson knock Holyfield out, and Holyfield would not be the least bit intimidated by Tyson.
Supposedly Lewis sparred Tyson when Tyson had a lot of pro fights and Lewis was still an amateur, and Lewis got the better of him, so Lewis beats him as well.
I think there are obvious ones like Foreman and Ali who would both beat him, but other guys like Louis and Marciano who knows because the era was too long ago to compare.
Keep in mind James Tillis won rounds against prime Tyson. As has been mentioned, bonecrusher smith took him the distance, and of course he lost be knockout to Buster Douglas.Comment
-
Lewis and Tyson sparred when they were both amatuers and very young. Tyson wasn't nearly as good as an amatuer as he was a pro, the same with Lewis. I have read mixed reports: one said Tyson beat the crap out of him, another Lewis did a number on Tyson. The one I rely on says that Tyson beat up Lewis in the first round...Lewis then went back to his corner, said to himself "OK, this is how it is going to be", then fights on and adjusts to Tyson and does well.
Holyfield, I still say Tyson would beat him because Holyfield showed he could be hurt with body attacks. Tyson hurt Holy bad with just one shot to the mid-section, but Tyson didn't throw back to the body. If he were with Rooney, he would of continued the attack to the body.
Like I said about Tillis, Tyson was still growing, this was mentioned by both Rooney and Tyson. Tyson was not yet in his prime. I will have to find the video, it is on youtube with them talking about this fight.
Tillis also held Tyson the whole fight; it's kind of hard to fight when you are wearing gloves and somebody his holding you.
Bone Crusher took him the distance beacause he held the entire fight. "You are only as good as your opponent lets you be", ever heard that before?
How many people went the distance with other "Greats"?Comment
Comment