OK for 1 but not another?

[The Surgeon]

If it breaks up the flow and energy level of the fight, and the fighter holds for long stretches at a time, it's annoying. If it's a quick hold and release, and done because a fighter is hurt or even on occasion to mess up the opponent's rythm, I'm okay with it.

In Bruno's case he was holding to make up for his lack of talent, but in Ali's case he was just using one of many tools he felt he had at his disposal. I feel the same way with Wlad Klitschko in many fights.

PS Ali should have been penalized in the 2nd Frazier fight for sure. It was a crime how much wrestling he got away with in that one.

I actually just watched that fight and thats what got me thinking! Also watched a Richard Pryor stand up gig before it where he was mocking the grabbing Ali duz, just got me thinking. I think it was yes to use 1 of his many tools in tying the other guy up but also to mask the fact he couldnt fight on the inside. Again this sounds like im an Ali Hater but im a big fan, honest! Just tring to be impartial!

[The Surgeon]

No one else hav a take?

[The Surgeon]

Bump^^^^^^^^

[Kid Achilles]

You should have put something about clinching in the subject field...usually people have plenty to say on the topic when concerning Hatton and Wlad Klit.

[The Surgeon]

You should have put something about clinching in the subject field...usually people have plenty to say on the topic when concerning Hatton and Wlad Klit.

Good point, I should hav! I giv up, the thread id dead!

[Kid Achilles]

Next time you name a thread, take care with how you word it. There's a lot of threads popping up all the time and the ones that are easy to overlook sink to the bottom. Make sure you label it correctly. This one should have mentioned Ali and clinching in the subject field for example. Make a new one in this manner on this same subject.

[The Surgeon]

Next time you name a thread, take care with how you word it. There's a lot of threads popping up all the time and the ones that are easy to overlook sink to the bottom. Make sure you label it correctly. This one should have mentioned Ali and clinching in the subject field for example. Make a new one in this manner on this same subject.

I was just about to agree there Kid but then I noticed there was 137 views so they must hav looked and not had an opinion on it! Or at least an opinion that wasnt negative to Ali.

[joeytrimble]

that richard pryor bit your talking about is richard pryor live from long beach
i have it on tape being the high comedy lover i am

as i have andrew dice clays "a night with dice" where for the first and only time on tape he does his elvis routine which ****ing jams ...considering how much energy he puts into the show before hand

he tears cc rider up big time ... tons of energy and never loses the kings voice once its brilliant

[Addison]

I think you brought up a great point R1.

Ali is afforded "exotic" consideration for his clinching.

It's rarely if ever discussed - I'm shocked more people did not weigh in.

One of the better threads.. Great subject.

[butterfly1964]

I posted this in BH but no1's replied yet so i'll try here. First off Id like to say Im a massive Ali fan. My problem is why when he clinched all the time, and he clinched alot was it acceceptable, even smart? Commentaters would say he was smothering brilliantly or tying his man up on the inside intelligently. But take say Frank Bruno just for example when he clinched Tyson he was ruining the fight, spoiling it making ugly and most importantly FOULING. What was different, was it just Ali bias?

Ali did it periodically, and used it to control the pace of the fight, while others like Ruiz just hug the whole time and give no action to back it up.