OK for 1 but not another?

[The Surgeon]

I posted this in BH but no1's replied yet so i'll try here. First off Id like to say Im a massive Ali fan. My problem is why when he clinched all the time, and he clinched alot was it acceceptable, even smart? Commentaters would say he was smothering brilliantly or tying his man up on the inside intelligently. But take say Frank Bruno just for example when he clinched Tyson he was ruining the fight, spoiling it making ugly and most importantly FOULING. What was different, was it just Ali bias?

[PATO 1]

becasuse bruno sucks an always did

[Piggu]

becasuse bruno sucks an always did

And Ali was great.

[The Surgeon]

becasuse bruno sucks an always did

Franks better than givin credit for but thats not the point, he was just an example

[beez721]

I posted this in BH but no1's replied yet so i'll try here. First off Id like to say Im a massive Ali fan. My problem is why when he clinched all the time, and he clinched alot was it acceceptable, even smart? Commentaters would say he was smothering brilliantly or tying his man up on the inside intelligently. But take say Frank Bruno just for example when he clinched Tyson he was ruining the fight, spoiling it making ugly and most importantly FOULING. What was different, was it just Ali bias?

are you serious? Ali let his hands go on the outside and clinched occasionally on the inside to catch a rest and break up his opponents rythym....when bruno held against tyson,,,he threw very little period and grabbed on for life to survive. not even close to being comparative. ali fought tactially and smart whereas bruno fought like a scared coward

[Kball15]

Because when ALI tied up, he did it correctly. It didnt slow the pace and he often got himself out of the clinch instead of waiting for the ref.

It wasn't "frustrating" to watch, like a Ruiz fight is.

He did it at the right moments, but he didnt clinch much at all though.

[Addison]

I posted this in BH but no1's replied yet so i'll try here. First off Id like to say Im a massive Ali fan. My problem is why when he clinched all the time, and he clinched alot was it acceceptable, even smart? Commentaters would say he was smothering brilliantly or tying his man up on the inside intelligently. But take say Frank Bruno just for example when he clinched Tyson he was ruining the fight, spoiling it making ugly and most importantly FOULING. What was different, was it just Ali bias?

That's an excellent point. Many of the lasting images of Ali come from later in his career - and he was hugged up, ALOT. There was an understandable need for much of it, but at the same time - there was a SUBSTANTIAL amount of clinching Ali did.

And as I mentioned, it came at a time later in his career when he should have clearly retired. These were the fights that damaged this GREAT man.

In fact - I think it's such a worthy point; I would say Ali's clinching was worse.

Ali's clinching prolonged his exposure to greater damage - and that is MOST regrettable.

Great point, R1.

[The Surgeon]

are you serious? Ali let his hands go on the outside and clinched occasionally on the inside to catch a rest and break up his opponents rythym....when bruno held against tyson,,,he threw very little period and grabbed on for life to survive. not even close to being comparative. ali fought tactially and smart whereas bruno fought like a scared coward

Clinching regardless of motive is a foul. Bruno said he clinched Tyson to use his weight advantage and slow the champ down, thats also a good motive. Now lets not get to hung up on Bruno, he was just an example. And yes im deadly serious.

[The Surgeon]

That's an excellent point. Many of the lasting images of Ali come from later in his career - and he was hugged up, ALOT. There was an understandable need for much of it, but at the same time - there was a SUBSTANTIAL amount of clinching Ali did.

And as I mentioned, it came at a time later in his career when he should have clearly retired. These were the fights that damaged this GREAT man.

In fact - I think it's such a worthy point; I would say Ali's clinching was worse.

Ali's clinching prolonged his exposure to greater damage - and that is MOST regrettable.

Great point, R1.

Thanx Rock, see an intelligent poster like urself realises this aint a dig at the great man, just an observation of his tactics and mainly the fans and commentators. And Im not saying it was definatley Ali bias, but it seems that way to me but im open minded enough to be convinced otherwise.

[Kid Achilles]

If it breaks up the flow and energy level of the fight, and the fighter holds for long stretches at a time, it's annoying. If it's a quick hold and release, and done because a fighter is hurt or even on occasion to mess up the opponent's rythm, I'm okay with it.

In Bruno's case he was holding to make up for his lack of talent, but in Ali's case he was just using one of many tools he felt he had at his disposal. I feel the same way with Wlad Klitschko in many fights.

PS Ali should have been penalized in the 2nd Frazier fight for sure. It was a crime how much wrestling he got away with in that one.