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pryor and mosley dominated much more then mayweather
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I think Sweet Pea is the number 3 lightweight of all time. Right after Roberto Duran and Benny Leonard.
Sweet Pea was a great fighter and his loses to Ramirez and De La Hoya where robberies, in my opinion. His draw with JCC was also a robbery.
Trinidad did ***** him but he was coming off the ******* thing so that might be considered an excuse.Comment
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Joe Gans Was Great For His Time But He Would Be Eating Alive By PryorComment
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No, I don't think so.
Purely because he relied on frustrating his opponents into losing. They couldn't catch him when he ran, and he'd circle around them tapping them making them look silly. Sure he was a great pure boxer:
If you want to talk skill: Maybe he's the greatest of all time.
If you're talking all time great P4P: No way. S R R.
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No he isnt p4p greatest of all time. I see him beig in the top 20 but not top 10 and DEFANANTLY not #1 He is a good fighter but nowhere neer as good as robinson, ali, pep, or lewis. No disrespect just my opinionComment
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Pernell is my favorite ever, which is why he is usually slated as my 10th greatest p4p fighter of all-time. I don't rank him as the best lightweight of all-time either...that distiction would go to Roberto Duran in my book...with Benny Leonard following closely behind. I do believe that at his lightweight peak that he would beat any other lightweight throughout history.
Things that compel me to rate Whitaker so highly:
-His skills and defense were obviously excellent. He is the greatest defensive fighter of all-time in my opinion. Of course there are other guys like Willie Pep and Niccolino Locche who were said to be unbelievable as well, but I have seen much more of Whitaker's defensive prowess, as compared to only a few Pep films. He could do everything, catch punches on his gloves, slip punches on the inside, completely make you miss with successions of punches, roll with punches, defend coming forward as well as moving away...he was special in that regard. He also had that educated jab that was great for defensive purposes and had the strongest legs I have ever seen at that low of a weight.
-His level of competition was excellent for having less than 50 fights (46 i'm pretty sure). Ramirez (HOF), Nelson (HOF), Chavez (HOF), DLH (HOF), Trinidad (HOF)...and other very good/solid fighters like McGirt, Paez, Pineda, Rivera, Haugen, Pendleton, Mayweather, etc. He was taking on guys who were 10-0, 25-3, etc before his 10th pro fight. How many fighters are doing that kind of thing today? Taking on dangerous punchers and future HOF'ers before their 17th pro fight...? Very few is the answer. He beat 6 undefeated fighters (including Chavez dammit) and gave hell to another one in De La Hoya.
-Generally Whitaker dominated people during his prime. The way he beat guys like Azumah Nelson, Julio Cesar Chavez and Greg Haugen who generally gave anyone a rough time or beat them was incredible. He toyed with you or beat you until the point of frustration. He also only got better in his rematches. He was robbed int he first Ramirez bout, he comes back and dominates Ramirez in the second. He has a rough time with McGirt in their first bout, he comes back and beats him thoroughly in the second. He has the rough first fight with Rivera, comes back and gives a much better performance in the second for a clear win.
-Whitaker in my mind proved a lot of detractors wrong, specifically in terms of the people who said he couldn't punch worth a damn. It's something I continue to see on this very board today. Everybody should know that Pernell fought in a particular way that didn't normally incorporate sitting down on punches and firing power shots. He did however show flashes of power from time to time. Pernell knocked out a former title holder and tough hombre who wanted his titles clean out with 1 punch in a unified title fight. Juan Nazario had gone through many rounds of slugfest with Edwin Rosario before meeting Whitaker. Even the excellent puncher Rosario didn't do what Whitaker did. Whitaker also had punching ability to drop guys like Rivera, De La Hoya and Haugen with one counter shot. Of course his come from behind victory over Hurtado needs no further praise. That showed he had balls and could do what it took to win, even in his fading state.
-All in all Whitaker won titles in 4 different weight classes and was THE man in two of them (welter and lightweight). He unified the lightweight title and owned that weight class with an iron fist. His title winning effort at 140 was fantastic as he dominated Pineda for the most part. Then he goes all the way up to 154, 19 pounds higher than his best weight, and clearly beats a damned good fighter like Vazquez in the middle of his welterweight reign. He didn't look for the easy way out with any fighters he faced. People forget that Vazquez was a damned good fighter at light middle...never REALLY losing until Pernell beat him.
Here's a good video of my boy completely dominating Greg Haugen.
Last edited by oldgringo; 12-23-2006, 04:50 PM.Comment
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