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(copied and pasted from a rival forum)
Amateur Daze
Imagine ringside tickets for a clash of hall of fame boxers Tommy Hearns (155-8) vs. Aaron Pryor (204-16) being sold for $10.00! Good seats to watch Lennox Lewis vs. Rid**** Bowe for $25.00, or how about Shane Mosley (250-16) taking on Stevie Johnston (260-13) for about $10.00? Some very lucky people do not need their imagination. They saw those fights, at those prices, at amateur boxing tourneys. I admit that I have never been a big fan of amateur boxing. To me, it is like choosing between a Volkswagen and a Mercedes Benz. The same quality German engineering is in both cars, but the step up in excitement and refinement with the pros is obvious.
What do (All records listed are from amateur competition) Fernando Vargas (100-5), Sven Ottke (256-47-5), Tim Austin (113-9), Floyd Mayweather (84-6), Yuri Arbachakov (165-21), Harry Simon (271-2), Joel Casamayor (333-30), David Reid (150-15), Joe Calzaghe (130 fights), Jeff Lacy (209-12), Artur Abraham (81-3-6), Felix Sturm (113-9), Kassim Ouma (62-3), Juan Diaz (105-5), Lakva Sim (152-12), Joan Guzman (over 300 fights), Wladimir Sidorenko (290-20), Lorenzo Parra (268-10), and Vic Darchinyan (152-18) have in common? All have had long amateur careers, and have gone on to win world championships before their 25th professional bout. It's a sign of the advancement these boxers established through their solid amateur pedigree. There are more, but I have only researched from Sunday to today. So if anyone wants to send me more names to add, feel free.
Of course, being a great amateur does not guarantee success in the pros. Exceptional amateurs like Jesse Benavides (320-20), Mark Breland (110-1, and he defeated the one man who beat him in the amateurs in the pros), Adolpho Washington (200-30), Orlin Norris (341-10), and Paul Vaden (317-10) had good, but by no means great, pro careers. Listed below are some notable amateur records. However, remember these stats are not as accurate or complete as they should be. Some could have been inflated over time, or underestimated by the record keepers of the era. I chose the records that are generally acknowledged as the most accurate, or agreed upon numbers, but perhaps off by small margins. So, take some of these reported career records with a grain of salt.
First, some all-time and almost greats:
Felix Savon (358-17)
Teofilo Stevenson (302-20)
Laszlo Papp (301-12-6)
Terry Norris (291-4)
Virgil Hill (250-11)
Mike McCallum (240-10)
Kennedy McKinney (214-13)
Pernell Whitaker (201-14)
John Mugabi (195-5)
Vitali Klitschko (195-15)
Leon Spinks (181-9)
Sugar Ray Leonard (165-5)
Danny Romero (127-5)
Wilfredo Benitez (123-6)
Harry Arroyo (120-15)
Nino Benvenuti (119-1)
Jose Napoles (113-1)
Mark Breland (110-1)
Kid Chocolate (100-0)
Muhammad Ali (100-5)
Vinny Pazienza (100-12)
Meldrick Taylor (99-4)
Michael Carbajal (94-9)
Michael Spinks (93-7)
Tony Zale (87-8)
Sugar Ray Robinson (85-0)
Carlos Monzon (79-7)
Hector Camacho (75-4)
Maurice Blocker (73-3)
Roger Mayweather (64-4)
Simon Brown (63-2)
Willie Pep (62-3)
Yoko Gushiken (62-3)
Naseem Hamed (62-5)
Ingemar Johansson (61-10)
Alexis Arguello (58-2)
Wilfredo Gomez (58-2-1)
Henry Armstrong (58-4)
Marvin Hagler (55-1)
Felix Trinidad (51-6)
Joe Louis (50-4)
Azumah Nelson (50-2)
Michael Moorer (48-16)
Ray Mancini (43-7)
Ezzard Charles (42-0)
Nigel Benn (41-1)
Floyd Patterson (40-4)
Ricardo Lopez (37-1)
Benny Lynch (35-2)
Carlos Zarate (33-0)
Iran Barkley (30-4)
Edwin Rosario (30-2)
Vito Antuofermo (29-1)
Bobby Czyz (24-2)
Chiquita Gonzalez (23-0)
Jesse James Leija (23-5)
Chris Eubank (19-7)
Rocky Marciano (9-4)
Some current champions and contenders:
Oscar De La Hoya (223-5)
Jeff Lacy (209-12)
Evander Holyfield (160-14)
Wladimir Klitschko (134-6)
Zab Judah (110-5)
Erik Morales (108-6)
Diego Corrales (105-12)
Acelino Freitas (74-2)
Rosendo Alavarez (66-12)
Kassim Ouma (60-3)
Marco Antonio Barrera (56-4)
Ike Quartey (50-4)
Vivian Harris (45-5)
Juan Manuel Marquez (44-2)
Manuel Medina (40-6)
Jorge Arce (37-3)
Montell Griffin (36-5)
Antonio Margarito (21-3)
James Toney (20-2)
Jean-Marc Mormeck (13-2)
Nikolai Valuev (12-3)
The reverse can also be true for relatively modest amateur boxers. Future greats Julio Cesar Chavez (14-1), Roberto Duran (13-3), Buddy McGirt (54-9), James Toney (20-2), and Larry Holmes (19-3) are examples of men who perfected their craft in the pro rings. Ironically, they did so on the undercards of Olympic medalists they would later eclipse. While Chris Eubank (19-7), being a later starter to boxing while living in the States, perfected his craft in the gym over here before going back to Europe and becoming one of the most successful European boxers of all-time.
Some of the great fights that have happened between recent champions included Kostya Tszyu (259-11) demolishing Vernon Forrest (225-15) in the 1991 amateur world championships.
But Kostya Tszyu (259-11) went one and one against former lightweight champion Orzubek Nazarov (153-12).
Long reigning super middleweight champion Sven Ottke (256-47-5) defeated WBC cruiserweight champion Juan Carlos Gomez (158-2) on points.
Antonio Tarver defeated Vassiliy Jirov (207-10) in an international tourney, but when it counted Jirov returned the favor and defeated Tarver in the 1996 Olympics.
Aaron Pryor (204-16) overcame a serious size advantage to defeat Thomas Hearns (155-8) on points for the 1976 lightweight Golden Gloves title. Pryor also defeated pro champion Hilmer Kenty (104-32), but twice lost to amateur marvel Howard Davis. Sugar Ray Leonard (165-5) also defeated future champion Hilmer Kenty, but somehow lost to Randy Shields in the amateurs.
Everyone wanted to see a Lennox Lewis (95-9) vs. Rid**** Bowe (104-18) fight at the pro level. It never happened, but you can find a tape of Lewis dominating Bowe for the 1988 Olympic Gold medal from most boxing video collectors.
One-time Hearns victim Virgil Hill (150-11), in a match of future pro champions, lost to Michael Nunn (168-6), but twice avenged that loss in the amateurs.
Another match of former champions saw William Joppy (48-4) outboxed by Chris Byrd (275-19) when both were still middleweights.
In the mid 90's, everyone was looking forward to a Roy Jones (121-12) vs. Gerald McClellan fight, but that match-up was derailed by the tragic injuries McClellan suffered in the Nigel Benn bout. If the amateurs were any indication of what could have been, McClellan would have won on points.
Most people think Shane Mosley (250-16) and Stevie Johnston (260-13) were the two best lightweights of the late 1990's. They fought twice in the amateurs, and Mosley won both bouts. Before you assume that that would automatically convert to a pro win, one of Mosley's amateur defeats came against former junior lightweight champ, Eddie Hopson, who ranks as one of the 1990's least accomplished champions.
Staying with the lighter weights, Tim Austin (113-9) only lost nine amateur fights, and two of those losses came against Ireland's Wayne McCullough. But Wayne fell short of the ultimate amateur prize when Cuba's Joel Casamayor defeated him for his 1992 Olympic Gold medal.
Mike Tyson had a decent 48-6 record, but somehow lost to professional heavyweight journeymen Craig Payne, Kimmuel Odum, and Henry Tillman in the amateurs.
Three of the greatest nations for producing pro champions are Mexico, Puerto Rico, and Japan. Yet, these three nations have combined to only produce three Olympic champions. Mexico has two in Ricardo Delgado (14-12-5 as a pro) and Antonio Roldan (2-2 as a pro), Japan has one in Takao Sakurai (30-2 as a pro), while Puerto Rico is still searching for one.
In the 1904 Olympics, held in St. Louis, Missouri, America won the Gold AND Silver in every weight class!
In 1908, held in London, England, The United Kingdom nearly pulled off the same feat (winning the Gold and Silver in every weight class), but Australia's Reginald Baker was able to garner a Silver at middleweight.
The 1980 American Olympic squad, which was denied the opportunity to compete for medals because of international politics, consisted of:
106 pounds - Robert Shannon
112 pounds - Richie Sandoval
119 pounds - Jackie Beard
125 pounds - Bernard Taylor
132 pounds - Joe Manley
139 pounds - Johnny Bumphus
147 pounds - Donald Curry
156 pounds - James Shuler
165 pounds - Charles Carter
178 pounds - Lee Roy Murphy
Heavyweight- James Broad
Four of the eleven team members went on to win world titles.
Olympic Gold medalists who also won world titles:
Muhammad Ali
Nino Benvenuti
Mark Breland
Joel Casamayor
Oscar De La Hoya
Jackie Fields
Chris Finnegan
George Foreman
Joe Frazier
Frankie Genaro
Vassiliy Jirov
Slobodan Kacar
Wladimir Klitschko
Fidel LaBarba
Sugar Ray Leonard
Lennox Lewis
Henry Maske
Andrew Maynard
Kennedy McKinney
Ray Mercer
Patrizio Oliva
Giovanni Parisi
Mate Parlov
Floyd Patterson
Pascual Perez
Leo Randolph
David Reid
Sugar Ray Seales
Leon Spinks
Michael Spinks
Maurizio Stecca
Frank Tate
Meldrick Taylor
Pernell Whitaker
In order for Oscar De La Hoya (223-5) to win his Gold Medal at the 1992 Olympics he had to beat German Marco Rudolph (207-28-1)...who was the only man to be beat him in an international amateur competition.
Amateur Daze
Imagine ringside tickets for a clash of hall of fame boxers Tommy Hearns (155-8) vs. Aaron Pryor (204-16) being sold for $10.00! Good seats to watch Lennox Lewis vs. Rid**** Bowe for $25.00, or how about Shane Mosley (250-16) taking on Stevie Johnston (260-13) for about $10.00? Some very lucky people do not need their imagination. They saw those fights, at those prices, at amateur boxing tourneys. I admit that I have never been a big fan of amateur boxing. To me, it is like choosing between a Volkswagen and a Mercedes Benz. The same quality German engineering is in both cars, but the step up in excitement and refinement with the pros is obvious.
What do (All records listed are from amateur competition) Fernando Vargas (100-5), Sven Ottke (256-47-5), Tim Austin (113-9), Floyd Mayweather (84-6), Yuri Arbachakov (165-21), Harry Simon (271-2), Joel Casamayor (333-30), David Reid (150-15), Joe Calzaghe (130 fights), Jeff Lacy (209-12), Artur Abraham (81-3-6), Felix Sturm (113-9), Kassim Ouma (62-3), Juan Diaz (105-5), Lakva Sim (152-12), Joan Guzman (over 300 fights), Wladimir Sidorenko (290-20), Lorenzo Parra (268-10), and Vic Darchinyan (152-18) have in common? All have had long amateur careers, and have gone on to win world championships before their 25th professional bout. It's a sign of the advancement these boxers established through their solid amateur pedigree. There are more, but I have only researched from Sunday to today. So if anyone wants to send me more names to add, feel free.
Of course, being a great amateur does not guarantee success in the pros. Exceptional amateurs like Jesse Benavides (320-20), Mark Breland (110-1, and he defeated the one man who beat him in the amateurs in the pros), Adolpho Washington (200-30), Orlin Norris (341-10), and Paul Vaden (317-10) had good, but by no means great, pro careers. Listed below are some notable amateur records. However, remember these stats are not as accurate or complete as they should be. Some could have been inflated over time, or underestimated by the record keepers of the era. I chose the records that are generally acknowledged as the most accurate, or agreed upon numbers, but perhaps off by small margins. So, take some of these reported career records with a grain of salt.
First, some all-time and almost greats:
Felix Savon (358-17)
Teofilo Stevenson (302-20)
Laszlo Papp (301-12-6)
Terry Norris (291-4)
Virgil Hill (250-11)
Mike McCallum (240-10)
Kennedy McKinney (214-13)
Pernell Whitaker (201-14)
John Mugabi (195-5)
Vitali Klitschko (195-15)
Leon Spinks (181-9)
Sugar Ray Leonard (165-5)
Danny Romero (127-5)
Wilfredo Benitez (123-6)
Harry Arroyo (120-15)
Nino Benvenuti (119-1)
Jose Napoles (113-1)
Mark Breland (110-1)
Kid Chocolate (100-0)
Muhammad Ali (100-5)
Vinny Pazienza (100-12)
Meldrick Taylor (99-4)
Michael Carbajal (94-9)
Michael Spinks (93-7)
Tony Zale (87-8)
Sugar Ray Robinson (85-0)
Carlos Monzon (79-7)
Hector Camacho (75-4)
Maurice Blocker (73-3)
Roger Mayweather (64-4)
Simon Brown (63-2)
Willie Pep (62-3)
Yoko Gushiken (62-3)
Naseem Hamed (62-5)
Ingemar Johansson (61-10)
Alexis Arguello (58-2)
Wilfredo Gomez (58-2-1)
Henry Armstrong (58-4)
Marvin Hagler (55-1)
Felix Trinidad (51-6)
Joe Louis (50-4)
Azumah Nelson (50-2)
Michael Moorer (48-16)
Ray Mancini (43-7)
Ezzard Charles (42-0)
Nigel Benn (41-1)
Floyd Patterson (40-4)
Ricardo Lopez (37-1)
Benny Lynch (35-2)
Carlos Zarate (33-0)
Iran Barkley (30-4)
Edwin Rosario (30-2)
Vito Antuofermo (29-1)
Bobby Czyz (24-2)
Chiquita Gonzalez (23-0)
Jesse James Leija (23-5)
Chris Eubank (19-7)
Rocky Marciano (9-4)
Some current champions and contenders:
Oscar De La Hoya (223-5)
Jeff Lacy (209-12)
Evander Holyfield (160-14)
Wladimir Klitschko (134-6)
Zab Judah (110-5)
Erik Morales (108-6)
Diego Corrales (105-12)
Acelino Freitas (74-2)
Rosendo Alavarez (66-12)
Kassim Ouma (60-3)
Marco Antonio Barrera (56-4)
Ike Quartey (50-4)
Vivian Harris (45-5)
Juan Manuel Marquez (44-2)
Manuel Medina (40-6)
Jorge Arce (37-3)
Montell Griffin (36-5)
Antonio Margarito (21-3)
James Toney (20-2)
Jean-Marc Mormeck (13-2)
Nikolai Valuev (12-3)
The reverse can also be true for relatively modest amateur boxers. Future greats Julio Cesar Chavez (14-1), Roberto Duran (13-3), Buddy McGirt (54-9), James Toney (20-2), and Larry Holmes (19-3) are examples of men who perfected their craft in the pro rings. Ironically, they did so on the undercards of Olympic medalists they would later eclipse. While Chris Eubank (19-7), being a later starter to boxing while living in the States, perfected his craft in the gym over here before going back to Europe and becoming one of the most successful European boxers of all-time.
Some of the great fights that have happened between recent champions included Kostya Tszyu (259-11) demolishing Vernon Forrest (225-15) in the 1991 amateur world championships.
But Kostya Tszyu (259-11) went one and one against former lightweight champion Orzubek Nazarov (153-12).
Long reigning super middleweight champion Sven Ottke (256-47-5) defeated WBC cruiserweight champion Juan Carlos Gomez (158-2) on points.
Antonio Tarver defeated Vassiliy Jirov (207-10) in an international tourney, but when it counted Jirov returned the favor and defeated Tarver in the 1996 Olympics.
Aaron Pryor (204-16) overcame a serious size advantage to defeat Thomas Hearns (155-8) on points for the 1976 lightweight Golden Gloves title. Pryor also defeated pro champion Hilmer Kenty (104-32), but twice lost to amateur marvel Howard Davis. Sugar Ray Leonard (165-5) also defeated future champion Hilmer Kenty, but somehow lost to Randy Shields in the amateurs.
Everyone wanted to see a Lennox Lewis (95-9) vs. Rid**** Bowe (104-18) fight at the pro level. It never happened, but you can find a tape of Lewis dominating Bowe for the 1988 Olympic Gold medal from most boxing video collectors.
One-time Hearns victim Virgil Hill (150-11), in a match of future pro champions, lost to Michael Nunn (168-6), but twice avenged that loss in the amateurs.
Another match of former champions saw William Joppy (48-4) outboxed by Chris Byrd (275-19) when both were still middleweights.
In the mid 90's, everyone was looking forward to a Roy Jones (121-12) vs. Gerald McClellan fight, but that match-up was derailed by the tragic injuries McClellan suffered in the Nigel Benn bout. If the amateurs were any indication of what could have been, McClellan would have won on points.
Most people think Shane Mosley (250-16) and Stevie Johnston (260-13) were the two best lightweights of the late 1990's. They fought twice in the amateurs, and Mosley won both bouts. Before you assume that that would automatically convert to a pro win, one of Mosley's amateur defeats came against former junior lightweight champ, Eddie Hopson, who ranks as one of the 1990's least accomplished champions.
Staying with the lighter weights, Tim Austin (113-9) only lost nine amateur fights, and two of those losses came against Ireland's Wayne McCullough. But Wayne fell short of the ultimate amateur prize when Cuba's Joel Casamayor defeated him for his 1992 Olympic Gold medal.
Mike Tyson had a decent 48-6 record, but somehow lost to professional heavyweight journeymen Craig Payne, Kimmuel Odum, and Henry Tillman in the amateurs.
Three of the greatest nations for producing pro champions are Mexico, Puerto Rico, and Japan. Yet, these three nations have combined to only produce three Olympic champions. Mexico has two in Ricardo Delgado (14-12-5 as a pro) and Antonio Roldan (2-2 as a pro), Japan has one in Takao Sakurai (30-2 as a pro), while Puerto Rico is still searching for one.
In the 1904 Olympics, held in St. Louis, Missouri, America won the Gold AND Silver in every weight class!
In 1908, held in London, England, The United Kingdom nearly pulled off the same feat (winning the Gold and Silver in every weight class), but Australia's Reginald Baker was able to garner a Silver at middleweight.
The 1980 American Olympic squad, which was denied the opportunity to compete for medals because of international politics, consisted of:
106 pounds - Robert Shannon
112 pounds - Richie Sandoval
119 pounds - Jackie Beard
125 pounds - Bernard Taylor
132 pounds - Joe Manley
139 pounds - Johnny Bumphus
147 pounds - Donald Curry
156 pounds - James Shuler
165 pounds - Charles Carter
178 pounds - Lee Roy Murphy
Heavyweight- James Broad
Four of the eleven team members went on to win world titles.
Olympic Gold medalists who also won world titles:
Muhammad Ali
Nino Benvenuti
Mark Breland
Joel Casamayor
Oscar De La Hoya
Jackie Fields
Chris Finnegan
George Foreman
Joe Frazier
Frankie Genaro
Vassiliy Jirov
Slobodan Kacar
Wladimir Klitschko
Fidel LaBarba
Sugar Ray Leonard
Lennox Lewis
Henry Maske
Andrew Maynard
Kennedy McKinney
Ray Mercer
Patrizio Oliva
Giovanni Parisi
Mate Parlov
Floyd Patterson
Pascual Perez
Leo Randolph
David Reid
Sugar Ray Seales
Leon Spinks
Michael Spinks
Maurizio Stecca
Frank Tate
Meldrick Taylor
Pernell Whitaker
In order for Oscar De La Hoya (223-5) to win his Gold Medal at the 1992 Olympics he had to beat German Marco Rudolph (207-28-1)...who was the only man to be beat him in an international amateur competition.
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