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You know who wins this? The INTERESTED party with the most MONEY.
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Originally posted by ADP02 View Post
A lot of what I said has been echoed by experts and even WADA!!!
WADA said this:
Verbruggen said "I already mentioned the apparent absence of any review by WADA of the retroactive TUE granted by USADA to Floyd Mayweather.
When I asked WADA president Reedie about this, he wrote me":
“USADA issued their responses and I can only assume the matter is being dealt with by their
Board”(!) - WADA's response
"while it is clearly WADA’s task under the Code to review TUE’s. Here also I refer to the
opinion of the IC that
“a fair and unbiased investigation… is not possible when an implicated party is
conducting the investigation”. Certainly, in WADA’s vision, this applies to all, except when WADA
and USADA are involved........; then even, the USADA Board is a non-implicated, unbiased party if it
has to judge USADA........!!" - Verbruggen response
TUEC?
USADA TUEC is established by ....... USADA!!!!!
WRONG.
She told you that WADA didn't monitor Floyd Mayweather's case. The Head of the WADA TUE Committee and physician explained it for you WHEN a RETRO TUE is allowed and makes sense. He said that USADA shouldn't have given Floyd a RETRO TUE . You just do not want to listen because it hurts your case!
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Dude, you already said this. And I already showed you the quote from the same site that you gave.
WADA confirmed that under the 2015 World Anti-Doping Code and the International Standard for The****utic Use Exemptions (ISTUE), a retroactive TUE can be granted for an IV drip to combat dehydration. “For a case that would be monitored by WADA, yes the ISTUE could allow for intravenous infusions to be used in instances of dehydration”, a WADA spokesperson told the Sports Integrity Initiative.
https://www.sportsintegrityinitiativ...eather-iv-tue/
You see it right there, right?
Plus, you're flat out lying. A "red flag" is not the same as "should not be given," liar. USADA's biggest concern is the protection of the athlete. If his urine was extremely dark, like what happens with Rhabdo, it would be prudent to treat him as if he has Rhabdo to make sure that what happened to Stiverne doesn't happen to him. Good work by USADA.
Now once again, if you can't disprove Rhabdo, then you have no legs to stand on. It's no wonder you want to deflect back to this because you know that all your mumbo jumbo about weight is now out the window and you are left with nothing. Give up
Last edited by travestyny; 05-20-2021, 12:09 AM.Comment
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By the way ADP02
You seem very worried about cheating. I commend you for that. But why so mum on Pacquiao being caught attempting to cheat? Not a peep from you about when his Surgeon attempted to shoot him up with toradol. I have a statement directly from his surgeon saying he didn't need the shot, and saying that he was at full strength before the fight. Also a statement directly from Pacquiao saying he didn't have an injury directly before the fight. So why was he attempting to shoot himself up with Toradol?
An attempt to cheat, isn't it? Let's see if your stance changes
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Come on. You know what that meant.Originally posted by travestyny View Post
That meant that WADA allows it in certain medical situations that warrants it. Not just for simple dehydration but severe cases!!!
Come on. I showed you this enough times.
The head of the WADA TUE Committee and physician clearly states that there is NO way that USADA should have given Floyd a RETRO TUE. He also explained basically when you can get a RETRO TUE which is what the WADA representative, that you quoted, meant. Floyd was NOT rushed to the hospital to be tested and observed. Floyd called up one of those VEGAS Boutique IV companies and got a vitamin ****tail IV.
Here is what the head of the WADA TUE Committee and physician had to say. Floyd should NOT have received a RETRO TUE. You do not get one as easily as USADA gave them out.
"They gave Floyd a RETRO TUE and only came to light 21 days after the fight. Wow, USADA is doing that because they are getting paid. USADA is supposed to be a body that is supposed to be completely independent. Wow, its a murky world. Yes it is murky and quite frankly sensed disappointment."
"When it comes to RETRO TUEs". Made only when you do not have enough time to apply. Lets say someone gets injured on the field and goes to surgery that night .... and post-op they give him drugs. Its totally acceptable. You get the anesthetists report, the surgeons report then you put all that on the TUE form. Perfectly acceptable. That is what a RETRO TUE is all about. An URGENT .... Someone has an anaphylactic allergic reaction and needs the drugs (URGENTLY). Right, that is not someone who is going to play at tennis open final or race at the Tour de France. No (its not for that). That is when I challenge the system. Its a red flag."
"I TOTALLY AGREE. It doesn't smell right to me. To enable you to compete, you get a RETRO TUE to get an IV? What were they giving him and why couldn't they rehydrate him orally, clinically, that is what we do. You do not need an IV unless you are vomiting and have diarrheas and cannot drink orally and if that all happens then you will not be entering the ring against Manny Pacquiao."
So I got several experts that do not agree with you.
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Originally posted by travestyny View PostBy the way ADP02
You seem very worried about cheating. I commend you for that. But why so mum on Pacquiao being caught attempting to cheat? Not a peep from you about when his Surgeon attempted to shoot him up with toradol. I have a statement directly from his surgeon saying he didn't need the shot, and saying that he was at full strength before the fight. Also a statement directly from Pacquiao saying he didn't have an injury directly before the fight. So why was he attempting to shoot himself up with Toradol?
An attempt to cheat, isn't it? Let's see if your stance changes
Very different situation
Manny's team blew it. They asked USADA if it was OK to use. USADA confirmed that it is not illegal as per WADA. So Manny's team incorrectly believed that they were fine with using it.
NSAC then denied Manny's use of it. So Manny didn't use it. ALL good and handled the right way. If Manny did use it then yes, NSAC should have suspended him and disqualify Manny BUT Manny didn't. So all is good.
Actually, NSAC were ready to investigate Manny. If it was found that there was wrong-doing, yes, Manny should have been fined/suspended. At least 1 NSAC member thought that was extreme and quit. Possibly due to the NEVADA SAC being biased. BUT as soon as the Floyd Mayweather IV scandal came to the surface, all investigations STOPPED! Hmmmm.
In Floyd's case, Floyd did get IVs. Very very different situation. The best case scenario is, if Floyd did it to have an "edge" over Manny and NOT for illegal reasons, it is still illegal to do according to Manny fans? NO! That is according to USADA(check their website) and WADA.
USADA HAS suspended athletes for getting an IV even with best of intentions. That is, not to cheat. BUT USADA protected Floyd, who has paid USADA since 2010.
Floyd and USADA are both in on this one. USADA has the final say so they knew that what they said stands. NOBODY can interfere. Not even WADA. Which is WRONG!!! USADA was stuck/pressured to give a pass on FLoyd's case. It is clear. That is why USADA said that it is NOT ethical for athlete s representatives to pay USADA. BUT Floyd did pay USADA mutliple times!!
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Once again, he is saying it's a red flag and wondering why other things could not have been done. Well I've already explained to you a scenario where what USADA did would have been worthy.Originally posted by ADP02 View Post
The man had all the sights of Rhabdo, which affects high level athletes, and especially those who can't properly hydrate until after a weigh-in. Does that mean he had Rhabdo? I can't be sure because I don't have his medical records. But look at everything we've discussed. He wasn't having difficulty making weight. We've seen that with Stiverne (go look at his weights leading to the first Wilder fight) and Junior Dos Santos (look at his weights leading to the second Velasquez fight). He had "extremely extremely dark urine." He was reportedly dehydrated. He had injuries to (both) of his shoulders. He had decreased urine output.
All of these, particularly the dark urine and the shoulder injuries, seems to raise concern that he may have been dealing with some degree of Rhabdo. The treatment would be what...an IV. Which is exactly what he had done. It was the day before the fight. You would want to use an IV because you need to clear the stuff out so that it doesn't harm the kidneys.
Stiverne said that he knew something was wrong in the dressing room. Junior Dos Santos said he got it from "overtraining." That would tell me that this occurred or began occurring before the actual fights. Since USADA's main concern that takes priority even over catching a cheater is the health of the athlete, it makes complete sense that they would allow an IV in this instance as long as it is monitored by them.
If they wanted to help Mayweather cheat, what sense would it make to have a DCO, a Paramedic, members of the TUEC all witness or be a part of a cheating scheme, and then announcing it to the world so conspiracy theorists like you can make a big whoop over their favorite fighter losing? As much money as the people involved could make from helping the guy cheat, they could make even more from blowing the whistle. This story would be HUGE...the biggest scandal in US history and would shut down USADA completely. It wouldn't make sense to do this cheating scheme by the book by going through the process of a TUE when they could just say, "Look...slide us some money and we will just look the other way. We saw nothing. If you get busted, it's coming back to you and only you."
If Stiverne and Dos Santos could have had an IV before their fights and made sure their hydration remained up to par by drinking water thereafter, I think they would have been OK during their fights. I can't say for sure of course, but it would have definitely been better than going into the fights feeling unwell. I think USADA had just cause to allow this IV for that reason. It's as simple as that.Comment
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Originally posted by ADP02 View Post
Nahhh bruh. Yes it turned out OK because he was not allowed to use it. Just like Margarito wasn't allowed to use plaster of paris. But what I mean is why would he attempt to numb his entire body when they all agreed that there was no injury? That doesn't hit you as su****ious? It should be common sense that you can't fight with something that makes you feel like you can run through a brick wall for no injury.
What you've basically just admit is that if that surgeon had gotten that needle into Pac, he should have been suspended as a cheater. And that's the point.
And also to your point, if there was found to be wrong doing on Mayweather's side, he should have been suspended. But we know that an IV was not against NSAC's rules. The only reason he needed the TUE was for WADA's rules. Yes, he got an IV. But he was still required to take a drug test done at an independent lab that is required to process undiluted samples, and we know that the only way you can mask something is through dilution.
USADA has suspended fighters when they didn't inform them of their IV. USADA was notified ahead of time and present during the IV. As for the payment, it was the promoters who paid, just like Bob Arum has paid for testing and he is linked to Pacquiao obviously. But you never raised any concern, did you?
On top of that, Pacquiao himself was looking into using USADA after this point for his fights. Do you think he would be looking to use USADA if he thought they played a part in cheating him?
Someone who should stay away from fights is his celebrity surgeon, who admit to trying to numb his body with toradol for a non-issue. Shame on him, and shame on Pacquiao for going through with that.
In the end, I'm not trying to convince you one way or the other about either of these issues because I'm not going to be able to, just as you won't be able to convince me until you give more solid proof than you have given. You are welcome to believe what you want. I believe that neither one was on anything nor did either deserve to be punished. The fight went on. One man won (clearly not because of PEDs. Floyd's stamina has always been good throughout fights so EPO makes no sense, and he doesn't out muscle guys at that weight) and one man came up short because his strategy wasn't up to par. Manny was exposed for not knowing how to cut off the ring. That's not PED's. He had trouble getting out of the way of check hooks and right hands. Floyd's best round was the 11th as he began to learn Pac's tendencies even more and hit him with some great punches in that round. In the end, skill won this fight, not anything else. It's time to move on.Comment
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Plaster of Paris?Originally posted by travestyny View Post That is illegal. Period.
Using Manny's treatment was NOT illegal. Furthermore, NSAC had no proof of his injury. Would NSAC have allowed Manny to use it if they had the information beforehand? We cannot say 100%.
Floyd
"The only reason that he needed a TUE .... "
Sorry but it is illegal to use an IV unless you are severally dehydrated BUT we both know that was NOT the case because of the list of reasons that I mentioned already. Even USADA says the same on their website!
Manny using it: Maybe you don't watch sports except for boxing but there are multiple sports where the injured player comes back to play after an injury and is given a medicinal aid prior to the event in case the injury does pop back up. You do not know until you go 150% whether you are fully healed or not. If it happened in the 3rd round, Manny cannot call a time out and then call his doctor and get it then and there LOL
BUT there is also the case where you do not want to report it because then your opponent can find out and take advantage of that knowledge. Manny's team should have reported it to NSAC as well. But it was a mistake on Manny's part. They had already reported it to USADA that they were using it during their training camp. So we know that Manny was injured. So they made a mistake on that form. For sure.
but AGAIN, Manny wanted to use something that was confirmed to be legal while Floyd used something that is NOT legal!!! Very different.
Floyd's scandal came to light and then there was no need for investigations anymore Thanks homie Nevada SAC
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Spoon23
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Nahhhh, bruh. Manny's treatment would have been illegal. First of all, you can't take something like that without an injury. That's the thing. Second, if he did have proof of an injury, they wouldn't allow him to take Toradol. He would have to take something like Lidocaine which is topical. He would just numb the shoulder, not the entire body.Originally posted by ADP02 View Post
Plaster of Paris? That is illegal. Period.
Using Manny's treatment was NOT illegal. Furthermore, NSAC had no proof of his injury. Would NSAC have allowed Manny to use it if they had the information beforehand? We cannot say 100%.
Floyd
"The only reason that he needed a TUE .... "
Sorry but it is illegal to use an IV unless you are severally dehydrated BUT we both know that was NOT the case because of the list of reasons that I mentioned already. Even USADA says the same on their website!
Manny using it: Maybe you don't watch sports except for boxing but there are multiple sports where the injured player comes back to play after an injury and is given a medicinal aid prior to the event in case the injury does pop back up. You do not know until you go 150% whether you are fully healed or not. If it happened in the 3rd round, Manny cannot call a time out and then call his doctor and get it then and there LOL
BUT there is also the case where you do not want to report it because then your opponent can find out and take advantage of that knowledge. Manny's team should have reported it to NSAC as well. But it was a mistake on Manny's part. They had already reported it to USADA that they were using it during their training camp. So we know that Manny was injured. So they made a mistake on that form. For sure.
but AGAIN, Manny wanted to use something that was confirmed to be legal while Floyd used something that is NOT legal!!! Very different.
Floyd's scandal came to light and then there was no need for investigations anymore Thanks homie Nevada SAC
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As for Floyd, without USADA, there would have been no issue at all. It was not illegal as per NSAC's rules. I'm not sure why you are trying to paint it as illegal when the only reason he needed a TUE is because of WADA. De La Hoya had an IV and there was no issue.
And it's not true that an investigation didn't happen because of Floyd's so called scandal. Kevin Iole reported on the IV's way before Hauser. The threat to investigate Pac came about because Pac and his team were putting information out there that he was "sabotaged by NSAC." That pissed off Nevada and then they threatened to look more closely into it. It was kind of a way to say, "If you want to start putting blame on us, we can really dig in if that's what you want." In the end, they just let it go, as they should have.
Look at what Ronnie was putting out immediately after the fight:
Manny Pacquiao Feels He Was Sabotaged By The NSAC
https://www.boxingscene.com/manny-pa...by-nsac--90629
That's why they were threatening him with an investigation. Hauser's article didn't come out until September. It doesn't take 4 months to decide whether to investigate or not. They dropped the matter before then.Comment
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Excellent points.Originally posted by Toyman View Post
This thread is Fort Knox proof who truly won that night and it's definitely not the bald dude who ran and hugged for 12 ***** rounds while having IVs to get an edge over a one armed man.. It's really academic at this point. Cheers!
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