General Thoughts On Froch Groves.

[MDPopescu]

I'll post a video, and you explain to me how it was a fair stoppage without being blinded that you are a Froch fan.



In the round i see 7 punches the the back of the head... do you see a warning for it? (Up until 0:37 of the video)

There was some clinching, I won't deny that, and Froch got some good shots in

In the 48th second of the video Groves pushes Froch back a step, Groves is also steady after the ref stops it and needs to be dragged away from the fight...

Unless you can find a video that proves otherwise I'll think this is a shocking stoppage.

In a poll here, I voted for a Froch win by KO/TKO...

I like Froch because he's fighting his heart out -- not because of his "style"... Froch uses his forearms and he punches at the back of the head...
Even his very last punch was on Grove's back of the head (the ref was on the other side)... The stoppage wasn't right and everybody saw that.

[taansend]

Slimshandy may well be a fantastic bloke but he's a Froch fan, not a boxing fan. He said himself that he had Froch 'at least four rounds up' in the Dirrell bout.

You shouldn't take any notice of the lad in regards to Froch. Respect to him for supporting his man through thick or thin but you'll not get a rational point of view from him.

[- Ram Raid -]

they have removed it, but froch lands 5/6 shots unanswered. That is fact.

THE last two punches are really telling, froch lands a hook which kncoks groves haead 360, and ala bute style as groves gets caught with a right hand when he corrects his head. Before that froch had landed 3/4 shots on the ropes, and prior to that groves was holding as he got wobbled.

you have to defend yourself at all times. iTS A SHAME THEY REMOVED IT because the 40.40 mark really shows groves back turned, not knowing where he is, arms down his side and head tucked in. There was 1.30 left in the fact.

if YOU follow correct criteria the ref had every right to stop the fight going by the protocols. And it made it even more apparent when groves could barely stand.

even naseem explains it best and he doesn't have the beauty of having the reply.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tkb3K9-uDJw

I don't need to watch it on youtube I've got the fight here.

The minor issue is that the shots that you think are clean scoring shots aren't. Froch lands one solid right while Groves is against the ropes, the rest connect with gloves and arm. When Groves comes off the ropes he takes two quality shots. There isn't 5/6 landing shots, unless you count landing on gloves as a clean shot.

More of an issue for me is your insistence that Froch's punches were unanswered. Groves fires off five punches in that exchange, so despite what you're trying to claim, '5/6 shots unanswered' is very far from being fact. (I'll assume that by not mentioning the non existent 'brutal uppercut' that you earlier claimed that you're no longer trying to claim that one as fact).

Before going to the ropes Groves wasn't holding because he was wobbled, both fighters stood in the centre were Groves slipped a right hand.

And 360? You're just descending into hyperbole. Also can you tell me what's giving you idea that he could barely stand?

As I stated early in some detail Groves was still defending himself in a manner consistent with the way he had been doing throughout the fight so it wasn't a correct stoppage.

Debating which shots scored is one thing but making claims, such as 'brutal uppercut' - 'unanswered shots' - 'holding and wobbled before going to the ropes', that have no basis in reality really isn't doing your man any favours.

[- Ram Raid -]

Slimshandy may well be a fantastic bloke but he's a Froch fan, not a boxing fan. He said himself that he had Froch 'at least four rounds up' in the Dirrell bout.

You shouldn't take any notice of the lad in regards to Froch. Respect to him for supporting his man through thick or thin but you'll not get a rational point of view from him.

Aaah, O.K. Thanks for the heads up.

[slimshandy69]

Slimshandy may well be a fantastic bloke but he's a Froch fan, not a boxing fan. He said himself that he had Froch 'at least four rounds up' in the Dirrell bout.

You shouldn't take any notice of the lad in regards to Froch. Respect to him for supporting his man through thick or thin but you'll not get a rational point of view from him.

this American agreeswith me as did many stewart, graham hoston, allan green, dan Rafael, jimmy iowel, steve bunce, and even Jim watt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxWNh7QjoKo

So its irrelevant if im a froch fan, I describing the video and events factually accurate as its for all to see.

[slimshandy69]

I don't need to watch it on youtube I've got the fight here.

The minor issue is that the shots that you think are clean scoring shots aren't. Froch lands one solid right while Groves is against the ropes, the rest connect with gloves and arm. When Groves comes off the ropes he takes two quality shots. There isn't 5/6 landing shots, unless you count landing on gloves as a clean shot.

More of an issue for me is your insistence that Froch's punches were unanswered. Groves fires off five punches in that exchange, so despite what you're trying to claim, '5/6 shots unanswered' is very far from being fact. (I'll assume that by not mentioning the non existent 'brutal uppercut' that you earlier claimed that you're no longer trying to claim that one as fact).

Before going to the ropes Groves wasn't holding because he was wobbled, both fighters stood in the centre were Groves slipped a right hand.

And 360? You're just descending into hyperbole. Also can you tell me what's giving you idea that he could barely stand?

As I stated early in some detail Groves was still defending himself in a manner consistent with the way he had been doing throughout the fight so it wasn't a correct stoppage.

Debating which shots scored is one thing but making claims, such as 'brutal uppercut' - 'unanswered shots' - 'holding and wobbled before going to the ropes', that have no basis in reality really isn't doing your man any favours.

I don't think you have got it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSjeK-2Qjr4

Here it is in slow motion ill talk you through it.

0.2 froch lands a cuffing left hook

0.5 froch lands 2 shots to the body/chest

0.7 froch lands another hook which wobbles groves

07/08 froch lands a right to the chin/neck area

11 sec mark froch lands a right hand

13 sec froch lands a bomb left hook(head decapitation one)

14 sec froch lands the right hand(it wasn't a upper cut which was my mistake)

20 sec groves is head down, ticked in, hands down the side

After that froch lands two body shots

Also key things to note is groves was holding on before that exchange, and there was 1.30 seconds left on the clock

debate over my friend. its all there.

[- Ram Raid -]

I don't think you have got it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSjeK-2Qjr4

Here it is in slow motion ill talk you through it.

0.2 froch lands a cuffing left hook

0.5 froch lands 2 shots to the body/chest

0.7 froch lands another hook which wobbles groves

07/08 froch lands a right to the chin/neck area

11 sec mark froch lands a right hand

13 sec froch lands a bomb left hook(head decapitation one)

14 sec froch lands the right hand(it wasn't a upper cut which was my mistake)

20 sec groves is head down, ticked in, hands down the side

After that froch lands two body shots

Also key things to note is groves was holding on before that exchange, and there was 1.30 seconds left on the clock

debate over my friend. its all there.

0.2 The 'cuffing left hook' that you say landed isn't a scoring shot or a legal one. It connects with the lace of the glove to the back of the head.

0.5 The left hits nothing but glove and the right is deflected off the forearms and ends up near Groves belt line.

0.7 The hook hits Groves shoulder/armpit it doesn't wobble him at all. It's preceded and followed by fired off punches from Groves that you're conveniently failing to comment on because it does not fit in with your '5/6 shots unanswered' nonsense.

0.8 Solid right, as I've already stated.

0.11 Fair play on that one. From the angle I'd watched it at it appeared to hit glove. My mistake.

0.13 + 0.14 Quality shots like I said.

0.20. The ref had instructed them to stop at 0.18 and Froch pushes Grove's head and hand down with his right arm then the ref leans on top of him, which you're interpreting as him being barely able to stand. It's farcical.

And as for your key thing to note: Like I said he wasn't holding before that exchange, he was stood in the middle of the ring slipping a right hand.

My general thoughts on Froch Groves are that at least one of Froch's fans is as delusional as the man himself. (The fact that you responded to taansend's post about you having Froch 'at least four rounds up' in the Dirrell fight with a video of a man who you said agreed with you only to have him open his video by stating that he had it 115-114, only solidifies my belief)

[slimshandy69]

0.2 The 'cuffing left hook' that you say landed isn't a scoring shot or a legal one. It connects with the lace of the glove to the back of the head.

0.5 The left hits nothing but glove and the right is deflected off the forearms and ends up near Groves belt line.

0.7 The hook hits Groves shoulder/armpit it doesn't wobble him at all. It's preceded and followed by fired off punches from Groves that you're conveniently failing to comment on because it does not fit in with your '5/6 shots unanswered' nonsense.

0.8 Solid right, as I've already stated.

0.11 Fair play on that one. From the angle I'd watched it at it appeared to hit glove. My mistake.

0.13 + 0.14 Quality shots like I said.

0.20. The ref had instructed them to stop at 0.18 and Froch pushes Grove's head and hand down with his right arm then the ref leans on top of him, which you're interpreting as him being barely able to stand. It's farcical.

And as for your key thing to note: Like I said he wasn't holding before that exchange, he was stood in the middle of the ring slipping a right hand.

My general thoughts on Froch Groves are that at least one of Froch's fans is as delusional as the man himself. (The fact that you responded to taansend's post about you having Froch 'at least four rounds up' in the Dirrell fight with a video of a man who you said agreed with you only to have him open his video by stating that he had it 115-114, only solidifies my belief)

I showed that video as froch dirrell was a close fight that most experts had froch winning. I was there live and scored ot 4 rounds to froch as dirrells best round was a deducted point in the 11th. Perfectly fair scoring.


As for the shot by shot talk through if you though they were not landing shots even in the slow mo then what ever. That is subjective.

However whats not subjective is groves not protecting himself at all times. And that's the key, hes taken major punishment and the ref just seen him land a hook and a right hand and then duck, arms down, facing wrong way. This is not some urban folk law, this is fact. He was out.

Protect yourself at all times, froch threw two "pulled2 body shots after but because the ref caught the foetal groves he held back.

As I say its a moral debate rather than a boxing debate. How much destruction of groves career do you want to see. In your case you wanted to see him layed out. Ill assume anyway.

[Stuntman Mike]

I know there's a few threads on this but I just wanted to get a few general thoughts across for discussion (or not).

First off, I just want to say that a - I think Jim Watt is a horrible commentator (I was a fan of his when he was a boxer) and b - after rewatching the fight with Romanian commentary I actually scored almost identical to him. Sorry Jim.

My tally after 8 was 78-73 to Groves.

I scored the 2nd to Groves but that was a close round.

Froch could have received more than a warning for punching after the 'break' in the 4th.

The 6th was the best round. 1st minute I though Groves edged, then he won the 2nd minute & Froch came storming back at the end. Still Groves round though. It was Ward-Gatti-lite-lite.

8th round, Froch deserved a warning but the ref instead said "Keep it tidy, fellas". Carl, ever the warrior, was roughing Groves up by any means necessary but the Ref gave him leniency.

9th round, about 30 seconds before the "stoppage" the Ref taps Groves on the right arm during a scrappy, turn-a-round brawl - signifying a break. Groves stops punching a Froch lands a nice cuffing blow to the head. Not Froch's fault but another example of a weak ref on the night.

Then there's 10 seconds of pressure from Carl & the fight is stopped. Groves wasn't hurt. Maybe buzzed but Froch was hurt MUCH more in the first & just as hurt in the 6th.

I don't think the Ref intentionally favoured Froch but he did anyway. A British Ref shouldn't have been picked for this. Not because they're no good but because there was massive press for this in the UK - a fight with two 'world' title belts on the line.

I have no idea what would have happened in this bout but the Ref was completely wrong in stopping it.

And this is from a fan of both who has been watching boxing for close to 40 years.

Nah...a 40 year fan doesn't mean much either,just means your eyesight isn't as good lol

Don't really know what you were watching tbh...

Groves won the first round 10-8(pretty obvious)

Groves won the second round with clean effective hard shots 10-9

Froch won the third round on workrate and hurtful punches that took away Groves confidence(you could tell the way he went back to the corner aswell)

Groves just steals round 4 but it was very close because he hardly did anything the whole round although froch didn't land many jabs he threw a hell of a lot and Groves was very gunshy... Froch also throw a flurry at the end (Side note Groves throws a right hand a couple times and Froch catches it with his glove under his chin but Jim Watt is deepthroating Groves over them)

Froch easily gets round 5 ... Groves lands around 5 punches and Froch lands some hurtful punches and again Groves throws a right hand that Froch catches andJim Watt is all over his ****



Groves wins round 6 and imo its the round that sealed his fate... Froch lands some vicious body shots in the exchanges and its telling that Froch is now able to take anything Groves throws at him and still come back with combos of his own..you could just tell Groves couldn't handle Froche's power in this round and Froch could take everything including the kitchen sink from Groves...(which make me certain Froch was cold like he said in the first round)

Groves wins round 7 as he gets his second wind and puts a lot of effort into his jab and lands some jolting right hands... Froch doesn't do much except "punch back" when he was hit himself

Froch Wins round 8 easily as he starts by dominating the action with unanswered combinations for the first 45 seconds.. after that he makes groves fall short with several punches and lands plenty of his own... Groves lands about 3 punches the whole round yet somehow Jim Watt thinks its a close round??? laughable stuff but amazing stuff from Froch

Round 9 was basically an exchange off and Froch obviously got the better of it... he hurts groves with a left hook near the start of the round and has him clinging on for dear life... when Froch hurts him the second time he realises he has to punch back or the ref with stop it which ends up being a bad idea as he gets caught and goes in the exchange.. he then folds over stares at the ground and is in no position to punch or defend himself...All in All a good stoppage



My Scorecard is 77-74 aswell I guess but it was hardly any sort of domination some people are saying it was

[Stuntman Mike]

0.2 The 'cuffing left hook' that you say landed isn't a scoring shot or a legal one. It connects with the lace of the glove to the back of the head.

0.5 The left hits nothing but glove and the right is deflected off the forearms and ends up near Groves belt line.

0.7 The hook hits Groves shoulder/armpit it doesn't wobble him at all. It's preceded and followed by fired off punches from Groves that you're conveniently failing to comment on because it does not fit in with your '5/6 shots unanswered' nonsense.

0.8 Solid right, as I've already stated.

0.11 Fair play on that one. From the angle I'd watched it at it appeared to hit glove. My mistake.

0.13 + 0.14 Quality shots like I said.

0.20. The ref had instructed them to stop at 0.18 and Froch pushes Grove's head and hand down with his right arm then the ref leans on top of him, which you're interpreting as him being barely able to stand. It's farcical.

And as for your key thing to note: Like I said he wasn't holding before that exchange, he was stood in the middle of the ring slipping a right hand.

My general thoughts on Froch Groves are that at least one of Froch's fans is as delusional as the man himself. (The fact that you responded to taansend's post about you having Froch 'at least four rounds up' in the Dirrell fight with a video of a man who you said agreed with you only to have him open his video by stating that he had it 115-114, only solidifies my belief)

Jesus you're so bias... any boxing fan that watched that video in slow motion can tell those were damaging shots and that thge stoppage was in fact a good one