Indian Boxing Prospects

[HisExcellency]

Hamzah Sheeraz vs. Ammo Williams confirmed for June 1 on the undercard of Bivol-Beterbiev. This is a genuine 50/50 fight between two LEGIT world title contender's who are both young, undefeated KO artists. Obviously the Indian in me wants Sheeraz to win but as an avid Boxing fan, I take Dr. Z point that Sheeraz has a thin neck so might not be able to take Williams' power as well as the American handles his (who also has a thicker neck and wide shoulders). Therefore, I'm leaning SLIGHTLY towards the American but hope I'm wrong at all costs!

TOP fight nevertheless.

[Dr. Z]

Thanks Z for the detailed response and whilst I definitely agree with SOME of the things you wrote, I don’t agree with everything. For example, I DO agree with the fact that the influx of Eastern European fighter’s has increased the level of competition globally and these men tend to be ‘tougher’ than modern day Americans due to economic/cultural/lifestyle etc factors.

However, I strongly DISAGREE with the notion that America is out of the upper weight divisions altogether. Let me explain, I classify a ‘top prospect’ as somebody who has a good chance of challenging for a world title if not capturing one. Therefore, excluding ageing American current/former world champions such as Terence Crawford, Jermall Charlo, Jermell Charlo, Errol Spence, Deontay Wilder, Andy Ruiz etc there are still PLENTY of talented African American/Hispanic American fighter’s who fit this definition. See list below:-

David Benavidez
Jared Anderson
Edgar Berlanga
Diego Pacheco
Sebastian Fundora
Erickson Lubin
Jesus Ramos
Brian Mendoza
Charles Cornwell
Elijah Garcia
Ammo Williams

ALL of the fighter’s listed above are under 30yo and ranked within Ring magazine’s top 10 for their respective weight classes. They also ALL happen to be either African American or Hispanic American. Therefore, there are at least 11 top American prospects currently in circulation (not counting the younger fighter’s who are currently ranked outside Ring’s top 10) with a good shot of at least competing for a world title but NONE of them are White Americans. Therefore, I think it’s fair to say that White Americans are effectively out of Boxing altogether (particularly in the higher weight classes) but NOT African Americans/Hispanic Americans.

Don’t you agree?

PS: In fact, the only decent White American prospect who fits this definition is Richard Torres (if he doesn’t run into Jalolov again lol) but he’s 50% Mexican so I guess he doesn’t count Z?

As I explained, USA boxing is broken and White Americans don't box anymore in the numbers they used to. Is that what you want me to say? It is the truth. You are much more likely to find White Americans in MMA. It is a " glamor sport " and one that pays well at the bottom and middle. The promoters there pay the fighters more to start out. Among the USA's problems on boxing at the promotional levels. I am not going down that rabbit hole.

Now, their European cousins still box and do it well, most notably from Eastern Europe. That is a fact. They happen to be white.

Now there are no Indians, a nation of a billion+ people which you have stated the people are poor in general. That is a good climate to produce boxers historically. But yet they don't and it's not for a lack of Indians in boxing trying. The only conclusion is they just are good at it. You will not view that truth.


Boxing history tells us that. You are left to hype half Indians and men professionals or jr amateurs which will mostly flame out as men into the senior class of amateurs. The 2024 Paris Olympics are upon us. They will likely be no Indians in boxing for the Olympic games.

I count the well spoken Ricahrd Torrez as American. I am a fan of his. Yes he is part Mexican. He does not look Mexican though, he looks American.

I do not care for Kovalev Ko as a poster. He is factually inaccurate and I have him on ignore. By replying to you who is quoting, that is the attention he desperately seeks. He claims he is white??? Based on his replies I don't care and I'd guess he is at least part Indian, the good part of course.

[Inoue Body Shot]

False. Z just doesn't like how I can tell the reality of the American sports landscape and prove him wrong when he says "Most of the top fighters in Boxing are foreign white guys." That is false. There are some good fighters from Eastern Europe but in no way is it "Most of the top fighters in Boxing."

Anyway, Hamzah Sheeraz vs Ammo Williams on June 1st. Great fight.

[HisExcellency]

As I explained, USA boxing is broken and White Americans don't box anymore in the numbers they used to. Is that what you want me to say? It is the truth. You are much more likely to find White Americans in MMA. It is a " glamor sport " and one that pays well at the bottom and middle. The promoters there pay the fighters more to start out. Among the USA's problems on boxing at the promotional levels. I am not going down that rabbit hole.

Now, their European cousins still box and do it well, most notably from Eastern Europe. That is a fact. They happen to be white.

Now there are no Indians, a nation of a billion+ people which you have stated the people are poor in general. That is a good climate to produce boxers historically. But yet they don't and it's not for a lack of Indians in boxing trying. The only conclusion is they just are good at it. You will not view that truth.


Boxing history tells us that. You are left to hype half Indians and men professionals or jr amateurs which will mostly flame out as men into the senior class of amateurs. The 2024 Paris Olympics are upon us. They will likely be no Indians in boxing for the Olympic games.

I count the well spoken Ricahrd Torrez as American. I am a fan of his. Yes he is part Mexican. He does not look Mexican though, he looks American.

I do not care for Kovalev Ko as a poster. He is factually inaccurate and I have him on ignore. By replying to you who is quoting, that is the attention he desperately seeks. He claims he is white??? Based on his replies I don't care and I'd guess he is at least part Indian, the good part of course.

Oh dear Z...it seems like my comments struck a NERVE otherwise you wouldn't have used a discussion which is totally UNRELATED to Indian boxing to have a bash at Indian boxer's yet again! Also, how many times do I need to tell you that I fully accept that Indian boxing is still in the infancy stage but you can't overlook the fact that there was a 65 year hiatus in professional boxing between 1950-2015 plus it isn't even a top 10 popular sport in India (let alone the lack of world class sporting infrastructure and coaching unlike America).

Anyhow, back to the decline of White American boxer's specifically (which is what this discussion was originally about). Sorry Z but I simply DON'T buy your excuses about White American's preferring MMA as opposed to boxing. Firstly, even if the pay might be better in the lower ranks of MMA (I don't know if that's true), it doesn't change the fact that a TOP boxer stands to make tens of $ millions more than a top MMA star (bar Conor McGregor). Those are just the FACTS. Therefore, if a White American combat sports athlete had any modicum of talent, they would easily choose a career in boxing because they stand to make FAR more money in the long run. Also, assuming that there has been a reduction in White American's participating in boxing compared to the past (I don't know if that's true either), it doesn't change the fact that their population (60%) DWARFS African American's (14%) & Hispanic American's (19%) who are still producing PLENTY of top prospects in the upper weight categories just like the 11 I listed earlier.

Therefore, one can only be led to believe that White American's simply don't have the physicality, talent or toughness required to be a TOP professional boxer these days.

As for Richard Torrez, I distinctly remember you saying that you DIDN'T rate him in an earlier portion of this thread but we'll let that slide Anyhow, just because he 'doesn't look' Mexican doesn't change the fact that his DNA is 50% Hispanic. Therefore, he's another Hamzah Sheeraz and cannot be counted as a White American prospect right?

Also, I'm still waiting to hear back from you on how many White American boxer's have qualified for Paris 2024 (none I imagine) or why no White American has won Gold at the Olympics in boxing for the past 60+ years despite HUNDREDS of years pedigree in the sport and world class sporting infrastructure and coaching (unlike India)? However, PLENTY of African American & Hispanic American fighter's have won Gold in recent years which further illustrates my point.

PS: KOVALEVKO is definitely 100% WHITE I can assure you. I suggest reading through his posting history for more clues if you don't believe me!

[Dr. Z]

HisExcellency wrote

Oh dear Z...it seems like my comments struck a NERVE otherwise you wouldn't have used a discussion which is totally UNRELATED to Indian boxing to have a bash at Indian boxer's yet again! Also, how many times do I need to tell you that I fully accept that Indian boxing is still in the infancy stage but you can't overlook the fact that there was a 65 year hiatus in professional boxing between 1950-2015 plus it isn't even a top 10 popular sport in India (let alone the lack of world class sporting infrastructure and coaching unlike America).

Anyhow, back to the decline of White American boxer's specifically (which is what this discussion was originally about). Sorry Z but I simply DON'T buy your excuses about White American's preferring MMA as opposed to boxing. Firstly, even if the pay might be better in the lower ranks of MMA (I don't know if that's true), it doesn't change the fact that a TOP boxer stands to make tens of $ millions more than a top MMA star (bar Conor McGregor). Those are just the FACTS. Therefore, if a White American combat sports athlete had any modicum of talent, they would easily choose a career in boxing because they stand to make FAR more money in the long run. Also, assuming that there has been a reduction in White American's participating in boxing compared to the past (I don't know if that's true either), it doesn't change the fact that their population (60%) DWARFS African American's (14%) & Hispanic American's (19%) who are still producing PLENTY of top prospects in the upper weight categories just like the 11 I listed earlier.

Therefore, one can only be led to believe that White American's simply don't have the physicality, talent or toughness required to be a TOP professional boxer these days.

As for Richard Torrez, I distinctly remember you saying that you DIDN'T rate him in an earlier portion of this thread but we'll let that slide Anyhow, just because he 'doesn't look' Mexican doesn't change the fact that his DNA is 50% Hispanic. Therefore, he's another Hamzah Sheeraz and cannot be counted as a White American prospect right?

Also, I'm still waiting to hear back from you on how many White American boxer's have qualified for Paris 2024 (none I imagine) or why no White American has won Gold at the Olympics in boxing for the past 60+ years despite HUNDREDS of years pedigree in the sport and world class sporting infrastructure and coaching (unlike India)? However, PLENTY of African American & Hispanic American fighter's have won Gold in recent years which further illustrates my point.

PS: KOVALEVKO is definitely 100% WHITE I can assure you. I suggest reading through his posting history for more clues if you don't believe me!

Wow, you're still stuck on this? First off India has never been good in the past or future in boxing. They have not been okay either and basically suck at pro boxing. They have produced zero champions ever. And have no grade A amateur prospects over the age of 21. They will likey be shut out from the 2024 Olympics. Sorry for giving you the facts. Your excuses and mixing in of other activities instead of boxing are well ... Like I said Indians lack the physicality to do well in boxing, and other sports that demand physically such as NFL football, basketball, soccer, Major league baseball, and hockey. Check India's amount of active boxers at box rec. There's a lot of them active, none in their top 10 of course.

Now remember what I said about maturity? Different groups of people mature a different speeds. Who are the good Indians over 21 in the above sports and THEN you might have a point which in the grand scheme of things in oh about 1% of the pro sports population.

All of the above is the representation of a nation of a billion + people

I follow boxing for middleweight to heavyweight and for the lower weights guys that are hall of fame level talents.

You are mistaken if you think you have struck a nerve with me. That is funny. Where are the American white guys you say? They are well behind the Eastern European white guys. As are the USA Asians, Latinos, Blacks, and Indians and Native Americans. They look who the top middle weight to heavyweights are. That should Answer your questions on race.

I ranked Torrez in my top 20 prospect thread long before this thread started.

Have you seen or met Kovalev KO? If not, you should not comment.

Now pardon my reply has it has hit a nerve with you. I think it has. Now I think this thread on Indian prospects is mostly dead copy as we can only wait until they lose. And like I said watch these prospects over the age 21. If they face anyone good they will likely lose.

Maybe by the next Olympics or sometime in the pro's a man will be there for you to hype that is 100% Indian. Until then my money is in the floodgates to hold them back. A little humor and don't get my flyweight " Grocho " Singh

[Inoue Body Shot]

Wow, you're still stuck on this? First off India has never been good in the past or future in boxing. They have not been okay either and basically suck at pro boxing. They have produced zero champions ever. And have no grade A amateur prospects over the age of 21. They will likey be shut out from the 2024 Olympics. Sorry for giving you the facts. Your excuses and mixing in of other activities instead of boxing are well ... Like I said Indians lack the physicality to do well in boxing, and other sports that demand physically such as NFL football, basketball, soccer, Major league baseball, and hockey. Check India's amount of active boxers at box rec. There's a lot of them active, none in their top 10 of course.

Now remember what I said about maturity? Different groups of people mature a different speeds. Who are the good Indians over 21 in the above sports and THEN you might have a point which in the grand scheme of things in oh about 1% of the pro sports population.

All of the above is the representation of a nation of a billion + people

I follow boxing for middleweight to heavyweight and for the lower weights guys that are hall of fame level talents.

You are mistaken if you think you have struck a nerve with me. That is funny. Where are the American white guys you say? They are well behind the Eastern European white guys. As are the USA Asians, Latinos, Blacks, and Indians and Native Americans. They look who the top middle weight to heavyweights are. That should Answer your questions on race.

I ranked Torrez in my top 20 prospect thread long before this thread started.

Have you seen or met Kovalev KO? If not, you should not comment.

Now pardon my reply has it has hit a nerve with you. I think it has. Now I think this thread on Indian prospects is mostly dead copy as we can only wait until they lose. And like I said watch these prospects over the age 21. If they face anyone good they will likely lose.

Maybe by the next Olympics or sometime in the pro's a man will be there for you to hype that is 100% Indian. Until then my money is in the floodgates to hold them back. A little humor and don't get my flyweight " Grocho " Singh

I did look at the top 25 Boxers from Middleweight to Heavyweight and only 3 are white from Eastern Europe. Gvozdyk is one of them who is about to get stopped by Benavidez, the other is 39 year old Beterbiev and Usyk who is a betting underdog vs Fury.

Z please prove to me with stats and facts how "most of the best fighters in Boxing are white guys from Eastern Europe." Just because that's your opinion doesn't make it true.

[HisExcellency]

Wow, you're still stuck on this? First off India has never been good in the past or future in boxing. They have not been okay either and basically suck at pro boxing. They have produced zero champions ever. And have no grade A amateur prospects over the age of 21. They will likey be shut out from the 2024 Olympics. Sorry for giving you the facts. Your excuses and mixing in of other activities instead of boxing are well ... Like I said Indians lack the physicality to do well in boxing, and other sports that demand physically such as NFL football, basketball, soccer, Major league baseball, and hockey. Check India's amount of active boxers at box rec. There's a lot of them active, none in their top 10 of course.

Now remember what I said about maturity? Different groups of people mature a different speeds. Who are the good Indians over 21 in the above sports and THEN you might have a point which in the grand scheme of things in oh about 1% of the pro sports population.

All of the above is the representation of a nation of a billion + people

I follow boxing for middleweight to heavyweight and for the lower weights guys that are hall of fame level talents.

You are mistaken if you think you have struck a nerve with me. That is funny. Where are the American white guys you say? They are well behind the Eastern European white guys. As are the USA Asians, Latinos, Blacks, and Indians and Native Americans. They look who the top middle weight to heavyweights are. That should Answer your questions on race.

I ranked Torrez in my top 20 prospect thread long before this thread started.

Have you seen or met Kovalev KO? If not, you should not comment.

Now pardon my reply has it has hit a nerve with you. I think it has. Now I think this thread on Indian prospects is mostly dead copy as we can only wait until they lose. And like I said watch these prospects over the age 21. If they face anyone good they will likely lose.

Maybe by the next Olympics or sometime in the pro's a man will be there for you to hype that is 100% Indian. Until then my money is in the floodgates to hold them back. A little humor and don't get my flyweight " Grocho " Singh

Lol TRIGGERED - hence the half page anti-Indian rant for the millionth time!

As for why I'm 'still stuck on this topic', it's because I'm trying to have a CIVILISED debate with you about the decline in White American boxing specifically. Therefore, pls can we stick to the topic at hand for once?

You claimed that in the higher weight classes, White American boxer's are well behind Eastern European boxer's as are both African American & Hispanic American fighter's when that simply ISN'T the case. Like I said before, excluding ageing current/former American world champions (who could still become champions again given that Usyk is 37 & Beterbiev is 39) e.g. Terence Crawford, Jermall Charlo, Jermell Charlo, Errol Spence, Andy Ruiz, Deontay Wilder etc, there are still HALF A DOZEN top American prospects who are all under 30yo and either world champions or ranked inside Ring magazine's TOP 10 for their respective weight classes. However, the common theme is that like the ageing champions mentioned above, ALL of them are either African American or Hispanic American but NONE are White American. Here's the list once again in case you missed it...

David Benavidez
Jared Anderson
Edgar Berlanga
Diego Pacheco
Sebastian Fundora
Erickson Lubin
Jesus Ramos
Brian Mendoza
Charles Cornwell
Elijah Garcia
Ammo Williams

Therefore, is it fair to say that White American boxer's lack the physicality, athleticism and toughness to succeed in the higher weight divisions nowadays unlike their African American & Hispanic American countrymen?

This would also explain why there are ZERO White American boxer's participating at the 2024 Olympics and why NONE have won a Gold medal for the past 60+ years despite hundreds of years pedigree in the sport and world class infrastructure and coaching (unlike India). However, plenty of African American & Hispanic American fighter's have won Gold.

It's a simple question really so pls answer the points raised above instead of going off tangent as usual...thanks!

PS: I've exchanged Facebook details with KOVALEVKO and rest assured the dude is white as SNOW.

[Dr. Z]

I did look at the top 25 Boxers from Middleweight to Heavyweight and only 3 are white from Eastern Europe. Gvozdyk is one of them who is about to get stopped by Benavidez, the other is 39 year old Beterbiev and Usyk who is a betting underdog vs Fury.

Z please prove to me with stats and facts how "most of the best fighters in Boxing are white guys from Eastern Europe." Just because that's your opinion doesn't make it true.

HisExcellency, not Kovlevko

Well, I checked the heavyweight rankings and I counted 8 men from Eastern Europe in box rec's top 25. This clown is either lying about information or badly misinformed. Which is it? I did not bother to count at curiser, light heavy, super middle or middle. If I did, we would have about, oh 30+ fighters who qualify under these terms.

Only three he says men! Get out of here. And if you and reading please stop PMing me KovaleKo. You actions are unwanted by me and if you keep send me private messages I will report it to the mods.

https://boxrec.com/en/ratings?r%5Bro...ntry%5D=&r_go=

[Dr. Z]

HisExcellency



As for why I'm 'still stuck on this topic', it's because I'm trying to have a CIVILISED debate with you about the decline in White American boxing specifically. Therefore, pls can we stick to the topic at hand for once?

You claimed that in the higher weight classes, White American boxer's are well behind Eastern European boxer's as are both African American & Hispanic American fighter's when that simply ISN'T the case. Like I said before, excluding ageing current/former American world champions (who could still become champions again given that Usyk is 37 & Beterbiev is 39) e.g. Terence Crawford, Jermall Charlo, Jermell Charlo, Errol Spence, Andy Ruiz, Deontay Wilder etc, there are still HALF A DOZEN top American prospects who are all under 30yo and either world champions or ranked inside Ring magazine's TOP 10 for their respective weight classes. However, the common theme is that like the ageing champions mentioned above, ALL of them are either African American or Hispanic American but NONE are White American. Here's the list once again in case you missed it...

I thought I answered ALL of the above in a previous post.

Crawford and Charro are in the top ten. Ruiz is not in any top ten unless you have a list of the top 10 fattest heavyweights. Wilder very overrated, is old, and a fraud.

It's a simple question really so pls answer the points raised above instead of going off tangent as usual...thanks!

I answered your question, USA white Americans are well behind their Eastern European cousins. Eastern Europeans are ahead of Black Americans and Latinos too from heavyweight to middle weight in the past 10 years. Do I need to link that post for you? USA boxing is a dying sport here. If you want to go into the history of boxing it is full of HOF White Americans. I done with your question now. And your wrong to suggest a group that defined the history of boxing is to weak. Now that is going off tangent?,

PS: I've exchanged Facebook details with KOVALEVKO and rest assured the dude is white as SNOW

.

That may be, but it does not change the fact that the man is an idiot. He may be another poster who knows me for another board before I posted here years ago.

[Inoue Body Shot]

HisExcellency, not Kovlevko

Well, I checked the heavyweight rankings and I counted 8 men from Eastern Europe in box rec's top 25. This clown is either lying about information or badly misinformed. Which is it? I did not bother to count at curiser, light heavy, super middle or middle. If I did, we would have about, oh 30+ fighters who qualify under these terms.

Only three he says men! Get out of here. And if you and reading please stop PMing me KovaleKo. You actions are unwanted by me and if you keep send me private messages I will report it to the mods.

https://boxrec.com/en/ratings?r%5Bro...ntry%5D=&r_go=

So you just pick and choose which posts of mine you respond to by the topic?

I provided the 5 Top rated fighters from Middleweight up to Heavyweight from BoxRec and only 3 were white from Eastern Europe.