Indian Boxing Prospects

[Inoue Body Shot]

Dr. Z HisExcellency Z you have stated Indians are limited to success in lower weight classes in Boxing or being a jockey in Horse Racing. Since then His Excellency and I have complete proven that wrong with The Nimmala brothers, The Sharma Brothers, Akshay Bhatia, Brandon Chillar, Arshdeep Bains, Manny Malhorta, Hamzah Sheeraz and TJ Lall.

Z the main reason that I think you say that American Boxing is dying is because you don't like what American people are becoming racially. There is an abundance of Boxing talent in America. It's just in the colored population.

USA immigrant numbers in 2024.

[Inoue Body Shot]

Further evidence how respected, significant and mainstream Boxers in lower weight classes are.

[Dr. Z]

Still strange you don't get any top Indian boxers, is the sport just not popular over there? There is talent all over the world

India has never won Gold in the Olympics and is likely going to be shut out as a team for 2024, Paris.

This is unbelievably poor. Not a single man qualifedfor Paris.

In the pro's they have yet to produce a single champion.

Don't forget India's Groucho Singh. I wrote about him before as he might be the man who finally wins gold at 51 K for India .... maybe. He was DQ'd via low blow in the qualifiers. There is a bogus thread on it.

[Inoue Body Shot]

Hey Z, there are only 3 of the top 25 fighters from 160 to Heavyweight who are white Eastern European fighters and one is about to get stopped by Benavidez, the other is over 39 years old and Usyk is a betting underdog vs Fury.

[HisExcellency]

Still strange you don't get any top Indian boxers, is the sport just not popular over there? There is talent all over the world

Professional Boxing was on hiatus in India for 65 years between 1950-2015 plus it isn’t even a top 10 popular sport in the country. Things are definitely changing though plus Hamzah Sheeraz (half Indian half Pakistani) is currently 19-0 (15 KO's) and mandatory challenger for Janibek's Middleweight belts.

[HisExcellency]

India has never won Gold in the Olympics and is likely going to be shut out as a team for 2024, Paris.

This is unbelievably poor. Not a single man qualifedfor Paris.

In the pro's they have yet to produce a single champion.

Don't forget India's Groucho Singh. I wrote about him before as he might be the man who finally wins gold at 51 K for India .... maybe. He was DQ'd via low blow in the qualifiers. There is a bogus thread on it.

Lol NO White American has won Gold at the Olympics either in the past 60+ years in any weight class despite HUNDREDS of years pedigree in the sport and world class sporting infrastructure and coaching (unlike India). Plenty of African American/Hispanic American fighters have though.

Whats your excuse for that? Don’t worry though, I’m sure Joe Cusamano, McKenzie Morrison (SON of the late Tommy Morrison) and Joey Daweko will buck this trend aged 40!

[HisExcellency]

Dr. Z How many White American boxer’s have qualified for Paris 2024? I’m curious…

[HisExcellency]

Well -- I am only going to reply to you once on the topic and hopeful after that we wash out hands as you have been itching for me to write a piece on the USA's decline in boxing. Got that? Okay, I hope. I was told by some x boxers, IBRO guys, and known writers all of whom said that it is not a good idea for me to pen that article on the web. It would upset several people and probably limit future communications. That was enough for me not to do it, but I did get that what I am saying is accurate and truthful. R.I.P. USA boxing as it was. I 'm afraid you are gone and I leave it at that.

Now here it goes what you need to read:.

1 ) It is not just the fall of USA white boxers, but the fall of the USA upper division boxers in general regardless if they are white, black, red, brown or yellow. It is happening NOW for several social reasons. As I said before historically it was not this way.


2 ) Once the fall of the Soviet Union happened many nations were allowed to go pro that had very limited or no access to professional boxing. It is noteworthy that the Eastern European nations have much owned the divisions from middle weight ( 160 ) to heavyweight ( 200 + ) in the game of international boxing. That dam was cracked 30 years ago. To use your terminology the flood gates are open. So what has been going on for the past ten years? Today they are mostly Eastern Euopean white fighters. Some of them had families in the USA but most did not immigrate to the USA from 1750-2000. These are the fighters who are generally on top today.

I believe that if the influx of fighters to boxing happened prior to say 2000, boxing history of champions would be very different. All white ancestry is NOT the same. There is genetic proof that these Eastern Europeans are stronger than the Western Europeans nations. And culturally they are tougher. They just are. The population of USA White people is at least 90% Western European. So I say to racists I say white fighters are doing fine, USA boxing is not.

3 ) All of the names you listed are not very good or great except for Charlo and Crawford. One is near 37 and the other has " issues " . These two men are the best pound for pound talents the USA has. Maybe Benavidez will be somebody special, maybe he will not. I don't follow men fighting below 147 pounds outside of hall fame talents. And few men at this weight ( 147 or below ) are of European origin. Look at it this way. If they are small animals in the wild they would not be respected by their own kind during mating season. Fighters sort of feel the same way and it is cowardly to boast 2+ divisions out of your weight class.


Now for the fighters I do not like. Hatters take note. I despise fighters who cheat ( PED's ) in or out of the ring whether they were Black, Yellow, or Golota. I do not like all white fighters, in fact I frown upon Fury who I view as a dirty fighter and a fouler who has been docked 5 points in five separate fights. He is guilty of PED use too. And the fighters guilty of hitting women or committing murder are the lowest of the low. All of the above is how view things and posted as such for years.

Now excuse me, I need to wash my hands.


- Dr. Z

Thanks Z for the detailed response and whilst I definitely agree with SOME of the things you wrote, I don’t agree with everything. For example, I DO agree with the fact that the influx of Eastern European fighter’s has increased the level of competition globally and these men tend to be ‘tougher’ than modern day Americans due to economic/cultural/lifestyle etc factors.

However, I strongly DISAGREE with the notion that America is out of the upper weight divisions altogether. Let me explain, I classify a ‘top prospect’ as somebody who has a good chance of challenging for a world title if not capturing one. Therefore, excluding ageing American current/former world champions such as Terence Crawford, Jermall Charlo, Jermell Charlo, Errol Spence, Deontay Wilder, Andy Ruiz etc there are still PLENTY of talented African American/Hispanic American fighter’s who fit this definition. See list below:-

David Benavidez
Jared Anderson
Edgar Berlanga
Diego Pacheco
Sebastian Fundora
Erickson Lubin
Jesus Ramos
Brian Mendoza
Charles Cornwell
Elijah Garcia
Ammo Williams

ALL of the fighter’s listed above are under 30yo and ranked within Ring magazine’s top 10 for their respective weight classes. They also ALL happen to be either African American or Hispanic American. Therefore, there are at least 11 top American prospects currently in circulation (not counting the younger fighter’s who are currently ranked outside Ring’s top 10) with a good shot of at least competing for a world title but NONE of them are White Americans. Therefore, I think it’s fair to say that White Americans are effectively out of Boxing altogether (particularly in the higher weight classes) but NOT African Americans/Hispanic Americans.

Don’t you agree?

PS: In fact, the only decent White American prospect who fits this definition is Richard Torres (if he doesn’t run into Jalolov again lol) but he’s 50% Mexican so I guess he doesn’t count Z?

[HisExcellency]

Dr. Z HisExcellency His Excellency can you make sure Z doesn't ignore me on this post? Thanks.

I completely disagree with your take on Boxing in America being dead. It is just not the people or weight classes that you want it to be. Yes he is 36 right now (Crawford is more than 6 months younger than Usyk) but Bud Crawford is generally considered the best Pound for Pound fighter in the world. Jaron Ennis is the best young fighter in the world and only 26. Ennis is stating his next fight will be at 154 pounds. If Terence Crawford and Jaron Ennis were white you would be claiming them as All Time Greats Z.

I completely agree that America is losing the top weight divisions in Boxing. It's because American top athletes are going into the NFL and NBA. Take the LeBron James, Ray Lewis, Calvin Johnson, DK Metcalf, Julius Peppers, Patrick Willis, Andre Johnson, Jimmy Butler, Karl Malone, Alonzo Mourning, David Robinson etc. If these athletic talents went into Boxing there is no telling how great they could have been.

My opinion is that Soviet fighters could have never competed with these Heavyweights but that's just my opinion: Joe Frazier, Ali, Mike Tyson, Larry Holmes, Joe Louis, Lennox Lewis, George Foreman, Sonny Liston etc.


So I took the top 5 best from 160 to Heavyweight ranked on BoxRec to fact check your claim of the best fighters being white guys from Eastern Europe.

160
1. Jermall Charlo
2. Erislandy Lara
3. Chris Eubank Jr.
4. Zhanibek Alimkhanuly
5. Carlos Adames

168
1. Canelo Alvarez
2. David Benavidez
3. Jaime Munguia
4. Demetrius Andrade
5. Christian Mbili

175
1. Artur Beterbiev
2. Dmitry Bivol
3. Callum Smith
4. Oleksandr Gvozdyk
5. Joshua Buatsi

Cruiserweight
1. Gilberto Ramirez
2. Chris Smith
3. Jai Opetaia
4. Norair Mikaelijan
5. Lawrence Okolie

Heavyweight
1. Usyk
2. Anthony Joshua
3. Fury
4. Joseph Parker
5. Agit Kabayel

I have a question for you Z. Do you count fighters like Zhanibek Alimkhanuly or Bivol who are half Asian and half white as white fighters? Seeing how you don't count Hamzah Sheeraz as a fighter from Indian ancestry I will assume you don't consider them white.

So of the top 25 rated fighters in the world from 160 - Heavyweight I count 3 fighters. Beterbiev, Gvozdyk and Usyk. Beterbiev is 39, Usyk is 37 and Gvozdyk came out of retirement and is likely to get stopped by Benavidez in June. I'm just stating facts Z.

"If they are small animals in the wild they would not be respected by their own kind during mating season. Fighters sort of feel the same way and it is cowardly to boast 2+ divisions out of your weight class." - Z

I completely disagree with you here Z. Z you do not speak for all fighters. Mike Tyson has said about Roberto Duran, "That is the baddest dude ever. When I saw Duran I wanted to be him. He's my favorite fighter ever. I use to go to Victor Cuban Cafe in New York City and say give me what Duran eats. I want to eat what he's eating."

Sugar Ray Robinson is widely considered the greatest fighter ever and fought most of his career at 147 pounds. My favorite fighter today is Naoya Inoue.

FAO Dr. Z

KOVALEVKO has specifically requested that I ask you to read and reply to his post above...thanks!

[HisExcellency]

[QUOTE=KOVALEVKO;n32229742]

Dr. Z HisExcellency

I will say this... Z you can say what you want about Indian athletes... but I will promise you that a majority of the TOP Doctors, Engineers, Pharmacists etc. in America if they already aren't Indian they will be in the future. Btw Z I'm a white American guy.

One thing I will say Z is knowing Indian people and some of their culture closely. Never and I mean never underestimate or limit what they can accomplish. Their work ethic, intelligence level and problem solving skills are some of the best I've ever seen. My sister is a teacher at a top private high school in New York City and she's told me unquestionably the top students that they've had the last 10 years have all been Indian or Indian American students.

Dr. Z Don_Jah How does it feel knowing that KOVALEVKO is actually a WHITE boy? Bahahahahahahaha!

I've been chatting with him for weeks and he told me his real identity early on but has always refused my requests to admit the truth in this thread as I don't want people thinking we're a couple of Indian nationalists! However, I'm glad the cats out of the bag and he's finally 'come out' so to speak