Frank Warren is an absolute ****ing gimp

[Shanus]

Hang on a minute dip ****!?! Didn't you state in your initial argument *by agreeing with Raging Bull* that Warren held back Calzaghe; i.e. so that he could make money i.e. by insisting that Calzaghe fought poor opposition; which you reiterate that in the above statement? Then surely, using your argument, any other promoter would do the same, right d'uh! My argument divvy, is that a promoter like Don King *like him or loathe him* would have insisted in Calzaghe fighting a bigger named opponent which probably would have ended with Calzaghe's defeat! And you're an idiot if you believe that Calzaghe would have beaten Jones at his peak

Even if Warren did hold back Calzaghe, what the **** has that got to do with Calzaghe getting defeated?

Name an opponent who would have beaten Calzaghe at 168 from 1997-2006, Roy Jones Jr. wasn't at SMW when Calzaghe became champion, and neither was B-Hop.

So even if Calzaghe did have another promoter, there was nobody out there to beat him, not Ottke, not Lacy, nobody.

[Flagellum Dei]

Even if Warren did hold back Calzaghe, what the **** has that got to do with Calzaghe getting defeated?

Name an opponent who would have beaten Calzaghe at 168 from 1997-2006, Roy Jones Jr. wasn't at SMW when Calzaghe became champion, and neither was B-Hop.

So even if Calzaghe did have another promoter, there was nobody out there to beat him, not Ottke, not Lacy, nobody.

Well, it's rather subjective, maybe nobody back in 1997 (just as the Heavyweight devision is devoid of any really talent at present); but now it's 2006 and Taylor is out there, as is Kessler, not to mention a vastly improved Woods! I doubt Calzaghe would box Johnson! A few years earlier and Nigel Benn would have put him in hospital!

And if Calzaghe is SO wonderful why is his next bout against erm Peter Manfredo (coz he won't box anyone he believes will test him - I mean Manfredo had to partake in a reality show to revive his flagging career, what does that tell you)? C'mon even you must admit that Calzaghe's decision to box Hopkins was based on cowardice! And ask yourself why Calzaghe is now boxing on a free to air television channel? Where are the pay-per-views receipts now?

And going back to my original argument - Warren will not allow Calzaghe to box anyone he stands a chance of losing too - which is just as well, as Calzaghe will not box anyone he considers a threat, so in effective they are perfectly matched!?!

'Always some angle to hang on to the title longer than I should have had it' - Rocky (1976).

[Shanus]

Well, it's rather subjective, maybe nobody back in 1997 (just as the Heavyweight devision is devoid of any really talent at present); but now it's 2006 and Taylor is out there, as is Kessler, not to mention a vastly improved Woods! I doubt Calzaghe would box Johnson! A few years earlier and Nigel Benn would have put him in hospital!

And if Calzaghe is SO wonderful why is his next bout against erm Peter Manfredo (coz he won't box anyone he believes will test him - I mean Manfredo had to partake in a reality show to revive his flagging career, what does that tell you)? C'mon even you must admit that Calzaghe's decision to box Hopkins was based on cowardice! And ask yourself why Calzaghe is now boxing on a free to air television channel? Where are the pay-per-views receipts now?

And going back to my original argument - Warren will not allow Calzaghe to box anyone he stands a chance of losing too - which is just as well, as Calzaghe will not box anyone he considers a threat, so in effective they are perfectly matched!?!

'Always some angle to hang on to the title longer than I should have had it' - Rocky (1976).

Warren won't allow Calzaghe to box anybody he stands a chance of losing to?

Who the **** was Lacy, everybody and their grandmother was predicting Lacy to knock out Calzaghe within 6 rounds.

And Nigel Benn might have beaten Joe, but I doubt it.

And could you please tell me what you mean by saying Calzaghe decided to box Hopkins out of Cowardice? The two have never stepped in the ring together.

[Flagellum Dei]

Warren won't allow Calzaghe to box anybody he stands a chance of losing to?

Who the **** was Lacy, everybody and their grandmother was predicting Lacy to knock out Calzaghe within 6 rounds.

And Nigel Benn might have beaten Joe, but I doubt it.

And could you please tell me what you mean by saying Calzaghe decided to box Hopkins out of Cowardice? The two have never stepped in the ring together.

Firstly, I predicted on another boxing forum, 2 months before the Calzaghe/Lacy fight was announced that Calzaghe would choose to fight Lacy! And other people here on this forum can confirm that! How did I know that *duck duck* Calzaghe would choose Lacy, am I psychic? No, but Lacy was a blown up SMW at best - even The Ring magazine predicted the LAcy/Calzaghe for the reasons I have stated! Yea, Lacy looked bigger than Calzaghe, but that means nothing - but have you seen how big Tommy Hearns is these days! And I never believed for one second that Lacy would defeat Calzaghe, again other users on this forum will verify that! Just the same as I predicted Benn to stop McClellan; and Watson to beat Benn (admittedly not by a stoppage)!

To answer your question, Hopkins is old (41), pretty shot now, and lighter than *duck duck* Calzaghe, thus in effective getting Calzaghe the unlevel playing field he requires in order to win! Ultimately, we saw the same thing with Hamed, he went along beating rubbish opponents, making money, and people adored him (duno why)! Then he fought one world class opponent and was destroyed (and forced into retirement after his next bout) and dodged the rematch!

Bottom line is Calzaghe thinks he's great (but he truly knows, he dodges opponents, you yourself stated as much when you said he hasn't fought any really big names) and people buy into that illusion! There is no way you can put Calzaghe in the same class as Benn, Tyson, Hagler and Lewis etc all of whom fought the best of their respective divisions!

[rooq]

Firstly, I predicted on another boxing forum, 2 months before the Calzaghe/Lacy fight was announced that Calzaghe would choose to fight Lacy! And other people here on this forum can confirm that! How did I know that *duck duck* Calzaghe would choose Lacy, am I psychic? No, but Lacy was a blown up SMW at best - even The Ring magazine predicted the LAcy/Calzaghe for the reasons I have stated! Yea, Lacy looked bigger than Calzaghe, but that means nothing - but have you seen how big Tommy Hearns is these days! And I never believed for one second that Lacy would defeat Calzaghe, again other users on this forum will verify that! Just the same as I predicted Benn to stop McClellan; and Watson to beat Benn (admittedly not by a stoppage)!

To answer your question, Hopkins is old (41), pretty shot now, and lighter than *duck duck* Calzaghe, thus in effective getting Calzaghe the unlevel playing field he requires in order to win! Ultimately, we saw the same thing with Hamed, he went along beating rubbish opponents, making money, and people adored him (duno why)! Then he fought one world class opponent and was destroyed (and forced into retirement after his next bout) and dodged the rematch!

Bottom line is Calzaghe thinks he's great (but he truly knows, he dodges opponents, you yourself stated as much when you said he hasn't fought any really big names) and people buy into that illusion! There is no way you can put Calzaghe in the same class as Benn, Tyson, Hagler and Lewis etc all of whom fought the best of their respective divisions!

just out of interest, who (other than kessler) would calzaghe have to beat to get your respect?

[Flagellum Dei]

just out of interest, who (other than kessler) would calzaghe have to beat to get your respect?

Well, Johnson; Taylor and Woods. Surely, every sports person wants to be the best in their chosen field right? So if Calzaghe wants to be considered the best, surely he must face the best right? Even if Calzaghe lost to either Woods, Johnson and/or Taylor, then he would gain respect as at least he has given it a go and not tried to dodge decent opposition!

[Shanus]

Well, Johnson; Taylor and Woods. Surely, every sports person wants to be the best in their chosen field right? So if Calzaghe wants to be considered the best, surely he must face the best right? Even if Calzaghe lost to either Woods, Johnson and/or Taylor, then he would gain respect as at least he has given it a go and not tried to dodge decent opposition!

Did you see Johnson/Woods 3?

They're both sloppy and wouldn't go the distance with Joe, Joe is looking to fight Taylor anyway.

[GEOFFHAYES]

And Joe has already out-classed Starie and Sheika, who out-classed Woods and Johnson respectively.

[MickyHatton]

Well, Johnson; Taylor and Woods. Surely, every sports person wants to be the best in their chosen field right? So if Calzaghe wants to be considered the best, surely he must face the best right? Even if Calzaghe lost to either Woods, Johnson and/or Taylor, then he would gain respect as at least he has given it a go and not tried to dodge decent opposition!

I can see where you are coming from but Johnson and Woods?

Taylor OK but would Taylor come up because there is no way Joe can go down!

Kessler for me is the most interesting fight out there (unless the Hopkins fight materialises)

[Flagellum Dei]

I can see where you are coming from but Johnson and Woods?

Taylor OK but would Taylor come up because there is no way Joe can go down!

Kessler for me is the most interesting fight out there (unless the Hopkins fight materialises)

Woods and Johnson both have heart and would give 110%! I believe Woods and Johnson would beat Calzaghe (provided so many hard bouts haven't paid their toll) simply because Calzaghe doesn't like to hit pressured or hit (which is a pre-requisite for any boxer)! I believe that Calzaghe is more of a 'celebrity' boxer than a boxer's boxer!

Yea, Taylor would have to step up, which is why he'll choose to box him instead of Kessler ! But still, Taylor is a much better boxer than Calzaghe!