Did y'all know Tree-Hugger was a racist term? A boxing story.

[QueensburyRules]

I got the racial bit from Sundowners by Kevin R Smith.

- -Ahhh, good ol' Kev, he infamously claiming Dempsey ducked Jeannette during a milk fund exhibition when the promoters pulled a classic bait and switch move by replacing his set up with the unannounced Joe that sent Doc into apoplexy as he chewed out everyone of account before grabbing Jack who had remained on his stool to hustle him out of the arena.

Few months later Jack dethroned Big Jess in an all time classic upset, the prize Doc had zeroed in on. Joe and Sam irrelevant to that point had to give way to Harry and the rest just a botched flush of mangled history clogging up the sewer lines of modern know nothings still searching for a plumber of the Holy Grail Order Union...

[Willie Pep 229]

Nero ***** and Panama Joe Gans used to train in the same facility. Nero is a Puerto Rican and Panama was actually from Barbados.

Nero didn't like Gans much and was always trying to get under his skin to get a fight out of Gans. ***** felt Gans time was passed and his time was coming but because Gans was just a Colored champion and not the lineal Panama felt he had bigger fish to try to fry.

One day while training separately at the athletic club Nero let loose a string of insults Gans simply laughed off until Nero rolled out "treehugger"

A fight ensued and Nero got the better of Gans before the rest of the AC broke it up. Gans agreed to fight Nero and gave him a whoopin'


I felt like that was interesting. From modern eyes it seem like Panama was really into the environment, or, really hated people who were. Which is kinda weird for a boxer. So I was looking into why Panama took the term treehugger to such offense but other terms Nero had tried did little to affect Gans' mood.

Turns out treehugger was a term used by blacks and Puerto Ricans similar to the n-word but for the West Indies peoples.

Nero wasn't calling him a hippy, he was calling him a racial slur. Which makes way more sense and is an interesting anecdote I felt like y'all might like to hear.

Commonwealth Sporting Club, Oct 1921

I can't seem to find it on the Internet(s) -- I did find a purported argument that it started with an environmental movement in India but it wasn't racist, but tribal. With the peasants trying to protect the environment from western development. It ended with a massacre on the locals who tried to encircle the trees with a human shield; they got taken out and the word became derogatory (so says this one webpage).

But that Indian event did happen early enough for Gans to recognize it.

But I can't find a connection that says Gans should have reacted to it as racist.

[Marchegiano]

I can't seem to find it on the Internet(s) -- I did find a purported argument that it started with an environmental movement in India but it wasn't racist, but tribal. With the peasants trying to protect the environment from western development. It ended with a massacre on the locals who tried to encircle the trees with a human shield; they got taken out and the word became derogatory (so says this one webpage).

But that Indian event did happen early enough for Gans to recognize it.

But I can't find a connection that says Gans should have reacted to it as racist.

Well, I could be misrepresenting what Kevin meant, but, word for word, " A term used by African-Americans and Puerto Ricans to insult West Indians"

I guess I am making a leap by calling it racial, but, I can't think of people-specific insults we don't call racial. So my interpretation could have been off.




I tried to scan it but the book itself is huge, like physically large, and slides around on my scanner so it only came out half-assed:

[IMG]https://ia801502.us.archive.org/1/items/gans-*****-treehugger/Gans-*****_Treehugger.jpg[/IMG]


I am having a hard time finding which book has the story without pointing out any extra meaning to trehugger, but, Snowdowners wasn't the first place I saw it, it was where I got the racial connotation bit of the story from. I'll keep an eye out for it.


edit - And this is why censors for boxer's names ****ing suck. I'll try again





Well....damn


https://archive.org/details/gans-*****-treehugger

replace the stars with c hink without a space. I can't change the url now....which sucks, I should have thought about it when I made the upload.


trying imgur and nero

damn

[Willie Pep 229]

Well, I could be misrepresenting what Kevin meant, but, word for word, " A term used by African-Americans and Puerto Ricans to insult West Indians"

I guess I am making a leap by calling it racial, but, I can't think of people-specific insults we don't call racial. So my interpretation could have been off.




I tried to scan it but the book itself is huge, like physically large, and slides around on my scanner so it only came out half-assed:

[IMG]https://ia801502.us.archive.org/1/items/gans-*****-treehugger/Gans-*****_Treehugger.jpg[/IMG]


I am having a hard time finding which book has the story without pointing out any extra meaning to trehugger, but, Snowdowners wasn't the first place I saw it, it was where I got the racial connotation bit of the story from. I'll keep an eye out for it.


edit - And this is why censors for boxer's names ****ing suck. I'll try again





Well....damn


https://archive.org/details/gans-*****-treehugger

replace the stars with c hink without a space. I can't change the url now....which sucks, I should have thought about it when I made the upload.


trying imgur and nero

damn

Interesting excerpt. No doubt it was considered insulting.

What is a 'West Indian' anyway?

Seems strange that American Blacks and Puerto Ricans would share a common distain for "West Indians.' -- BTW wouldn't a Puerto Rican be considered a West Indian?

I think the term is actually British in origin, used to separate their involvement with India proper from their New World Island colonies.

In the same way Americans use to refer to "East' Indians (India proper) to separate them from the American Indian.

But again, Why 'Tree Hugger' ? -- My first thought a few posts back was that it was an ugly lynching term but the article you shared has American Blacks using it on others, so that logic seems out the door.

[Marchegiano]

Interesting excerpt. No doubt it was considered insulting.

What is a 'West Indian' anyway?

Seems strange that American Blacks and Puerto Ricans would share a common distain for "West Indians.' -- BTW wouldn't a Puerto Rican be considered a West Indian?

I think the term is actually British in origin, used to separate their involvement with India proper from their New World Island colonies.

In the same way Americans use to refer to "East' Indians (India proper) to separate them from the American Indian.

But again, Why 'Tree Hugger' ? -- My first thought a few posts back was that it was an ugly lynching term but the article you shared has American Blacks using it on others, so that logic seems out the door.

I am Puerto Rican, and, as far as I know yeah, we're west indies.

It's the Antilles, both lesser and greater and the keys or whatever it's called that includes the Bimini and **** islands like that. So basically the Caribbean. I'm not sure the entire caribbean is west indies or indians, but, I can't think of an archipelago outside of both antilles and the keys.

Nero is actually Cuban but ethnically speaking what that means is some mix of Taino, Spanish, and Mandinka. The same exact as us. People groups like say the Maroon, are more mandinka and taino and less spanish but pretty much all the greater antilles are the same people kind of. Same native tribe, the Taino spanned Jamaica, Cuba, Hispaniola, and Puerto Rico. Or, the Greater Antilles.

The Lesser Antilles, from which Panama Gans, is from. Those little islands including but not limited to Barbados, Trinidad and Tobago, Saint Kitts and Nevis, you know abouts what I mean.

Those islands were home to the Carib. Native enemies of the Taino. The Florida natives, like Seminoles and such, were traders/partners with the Taino, the Caribs though were cannibals and considered bad people by the fisherman and hunters of both of the other Caribbean tribes.

So maybe he means something more specific than just west indies, but, also, maybe it's like black-on-black or a white dude calling another white dude a dumb ******* or some such similar? I really don't know. I know I wasn't expecting treehugger when reading about Gans and I definitely wasn't expecting it to be racial, but, there are in fact some old prejudices. Whether or not by the 1900s the Taino and Caribs still saw one another as enemies, or even today's Cubans and Barbadians, I don't know.

Caveat - I could be very, very wrong about any of this. I am Puerto Rican so...you know, you learn ****. As far as sources, I have none. This is like grandpas and **** like that just talking about things. Cobbled together casual experience knowledge if that makes sense.

[Willie Pep 229]

I am Puerto Rican, and, as far as I know yeah, we're west indies.

It's the Antilles, both lesser and greater and the keys or whatever it's called that includes the Bimini and **** islands like that. So basically the Caribbean. I'm not sure the entire caribbean is west indies or indians, but, I can't think of an archipelago outside of both antilles and the keys.

Nero is actually Cuban but ethnically speaking what that means is some mix of Taino, Spanish, and Mandinka. The same exact as us. People groups like say the Maroon, are more mandinka and taino and less spanish but pretty much all the greater antilles are the same people kind of. Same native tribe, the Taino spanned Jamaica, Cuba, Hispaniola, and Puerto Rico. Or, the Greater Antilles.

The Lesser Antilles, from which Panama Gans, is from. Those little islands including but not limited to Barbados, Trinidad and Tobago, Saint Kitts and Nevis, you know abouts what I mean.

Those islands were home to the Carib. Native enemies of the Taino. The Florida natives, like Seminoles and such, were traders/partners with the Taino, the Caribs though were cannibals and considered bad people by the fisherman and hunters of both of the other Caribbean tribes.

So maybe he means something more specific than just west indies, but, also, maybe it's like black-on-black or a white dude calling another white dude a dumb ******* or some such similar? I really don't know. I know I wasn't expecting treehugger when reading about Gans and I definitely wasn't expecting it to be racial, but, there are in fact some old prejudices. Whether or not by the 1900s the Taino and Caribs still saw one another as enemies, or even today's Cubans and Barbadians, I don't know.

Caveat - I could be very, very wrong about any of this. I am Puerto Rican so...you know, you learn ****. As far as sources, I have none. This is like grandpas and **** like that just talking about things. Cobbled together casual experience knowledge if that makes sense.

Thanks for the reply -- he got some revenge winning a UD over Nero C hink -- he seems to have had Tiger Flowers number (2 by KO) -- but he was at the end just as the big money of the 1920s was breaking.