Johnson, McVey, Wills, Jeannette...The Simple Proof of How Great They Were.

[travestyny]

I saw this question posed about how great these fighters really were. There is one simple proof for how great they were.


Great enough that the great Jack Dempsey refused to fight any version of them.




He got ran out of NYC by an old Joe Jeannette.

Drew the color line when Jack Johnson challenged him.

Admittedly, never heard of a proposed McVey/Dempsey bout, but a clear pattern was established that lets us know he wouldn't have gone near it.

Dempsey admit he was scared of Langford, so it's no wonder that he would run from Harry Wills, who beat Langford about 13 times.


So were they really all that great? If they could give Dempsey pause, then clearly they were THAT great.

[Marchegiano]

fair point.

[Willie Pep 229]

The Langford, Dempsey/Kearns refused to fight in 1922 was a finished fighter. Dempsey and Langford then exchanged for the newspaper boys the classic "he's the greatest fighter ever" complements and Kearns slipped the down on his luck fighter a few bucks.

Dempsey at that time admitted he couldnt have taken Langford when he was young and Langford was at his best BUT THAT OPPORTUNITY NEVER OCCURED.

And the JJohnson argument is just plain silly.

I am curious if Dempsey had chosen to pound on both of them in the early 1920s what would you be saying about those fights today? Be honest, be honest with yourself what would be saying about those fights right here and now.

[travestyny]

The Langford, Dempsey/Kearns refused to fight in 1922 was a finished fighter. Dempsey and Langford then exchanged for the newspaper boys the classic "he's the greatest fighter ever" complements and Kearns slipped the down on his luck fighter a few bucks.

Dempsey at that time admitted he couldnt have taken Langford when he was young and Langford was at his best BUT THAT OPPORTUNITY NEVER OCCURED.

And the JJohnson argument is just plain silly.

I am curious if Dempsey had chosen to pound on both of them in the early 1920s what would you be saying about those fights today? Be honest, be honest with yourself what would be saying about those fights right here and now.

Well hey, Jack Dempsey openly admit to being afraid of Langford. He was offered a fight with him when he was younger and he wouldn't go near it. Do you know who did at similar points in their careers? Harry Wills, and also Bill Tate I believe. They stepped up to the challenge I don't think Dempsey goes near him even when old and blind honestly based on his own words.

There was no JJ argument. He made a challenge and Dempsey drew the color line. I don't think it's so silly being that Old Joe Jeannette scared Dempsey out of NYC. You can tell that Dempsey felt some kind of way about Johnson because when he was asked if he had a secret fight with Johnson, he chose to say nothing but give some kind of sly smile....as if to say, "I know it's bullshlt so I can't say it, but I'll pretend it happened." We all know it didn't happen.


If it happened in 1920, there is no guarantee he wins. So what would you be saying if he loses? You gotta fight the fights! The point is, he wanted no part of these fighters at any stage of their careers. The proof is in the pudding. That shows the respect they got even in old age, and their greatness.


Let me ask you a question. Why do you think Dempsey refused the scrap with Joe Jeannette? Remember, Dempsey stated that he would fight ANY white man in the house. Even TWO white fighters. I remember you said his decline had nothing to do with race. So doesn't that say Dempsey refused to fight him because he thought old Joe was too good even at that stage in his career?

[travestyny]

This shouldn't be controversial. Take it from Jack Dempsey himself:

As I have drawn the color line, I am free to say that I think Harry Wills is a great fighter, one who will whip the very best of them.

[Marchegiano]

Can't leave out Norfolk. There was a big push for Norfolk-Dempsey after Kid took out Tate.

[Willie Pep 229]

We have been over the Jeannette dirty trick too many times -- you place way too much emphasis on quotes that are fed to the press - Dempsey was a mensch who called everyone except himself great.

[travestyny]

We have been over the Jeannette dirty trick too many times -- you place way too much emphasis on quotes that are fed to the press - Dempsey was a mensch who called everyone except himself great.

We haven't been over your reason for why Dempsey declined if it wasn't due to race. Just wanted to know your opinion. It must have been because he was too good. If Dempsey was willing to face any other White boxer, there really can't be any other reasoning. I'm only saying that if Jeannette at that age was too good, that surely proves his greatness.

It actually reminds me of what Burt Sugar said when telling the story of Jack Dempsey declining Langford. When he says, "Even when half blind, Dempsey would't fight him. He was THAT good." Something to that effect.

[travestyny]

Can't leave out Norfolk. There was a big push for Norfolk-Dempsey after Kid took out Tate.

Oh man. I was just trying to give my answer to GhostofForgeries thread since he banned me from it for proving how often he lies about boxers due to the "female trapped in a male body 'situation'" he has going on.

Let's not turn it into the list of those Dempsey ducked because his panties will knot and he'll flood the forum with more lies about anyone of the brown persuasion that threatened his idol. With Ali as his cherry on top.

[Marchegiano]

Oh man. I was just trying to give my answer to GhostofForgeries thread since he banned me from it for proving how often he lies about boxers due to the "female trapped in a male body 'situation'" he has going on.

Let's not turn it into the list of those Dempsey ducked because his panties will knot and he'll flood the forum with more lies about anyone of the brown persuasion that threatened his idol. With Ali as his cherry on top.

That's fair