Jack Johnson on the Ketchel Punch

[travestyny]

Lol back in those days punching each other's lights out was the foundation for a geniune friendship.... So T... All I can think about is how tough the women must have been. In a society where friendship was gained through punchout can you imagine what foreplay was like!??

Let's go back! lol

[HOUDINI563]

Gunboat Smith who was a sparring partner for both men and was ringside for the bout was interviewed years later. He stated the bout was faked and that Johnson could have koed Ketchel at any time he liked.

[Dr. Z]

Well it's no surprise that the story of a fix came after Ketchel's death. He died within a year.

I don't know. Me looking at the fight, it appears to me that Johnson had an easy go of it. Just to make it clear, I don't always believe what Johnson says. No way the Willard fight was fixed.

But this one, I think it is most likely he played up this punch just for the drama.

Sure sure. Dead men tell no tales. Johnson is a known liar and used the story when Ketchel wasn't alive to counter.

Johnson pretty much handles the much smaller Ketchel like he did with Burns. Was the Burns fight a fix too, and did Ketchel agree to take a beating in a fix? Let's be logical.

The press at hand says Johnson was hurt and dazed from the punch. Johnson said his jaw never hurt so much. I'll take their word over Johnson story and the fix story, which was mostly used to explain how a crude and short 155 pound man could floor and hurt him.

Like I said before 1909, which was Johnson's prime was not a good year from him.A quick review.

Two super middles ) O'Brien and Ketchel ) exposed the heavyweight champion by drawing with him and knocking him down. A glassy jawed bum in Ross, who won just 1 of his last 8 stung him in a loss over 6 rounds, and Gun Boat Smith, a new fighter TKO'd him in an exhibition match in 4 rounds.

The Langford fight IF it happened in 1909 would have been his best opponent by far, and judging on how Sam looks in film during this timeline and how suspect Johnson's results were in the above fights, I'd pick Sam.

[travestyny]

Sure sure. Dead men tell no tales. Johnson is a known liar and used the story when Ketchel wasn't alive to counter.

Johnson pretty much handles the much smaller Ketchel like he did with Burns. Was the Burns fight a fix too, and did Ketchel agree to take a beating in a fix? Let's be logical.

The press at hand says Johnson was hurt and dazed from the punch. Johnson said his jaw never hurt so much. I'll take their word over Johnson story and the fix story, which was mostly used to explain how a crude and short 155 pound man could floor and hurt him.

Like I said before 1909, which was Johnson's prime was not a good year from him.A quick review.

Two super middles ) O'Brien and Ketchel ) exposed the heavyweight champion by drawing with him and knocking him down. A glassy jawed bum in Ross, who won just 1 of his last 8 stung him in a loss over 6 rounds, and Gun Boat Smith, a new fighter TKO'd him in an exhibition match in 4 rounds.

The Langford fight IF it happened in 1909 would have been his best opponent by far, and judging on how Sam looks in film during this timeline and how suspect Johnson's results were in the above fights, I'd pick Sam.

Once again, no one cares about your opinions and the bullshlt that you pull out with no proof of anything.

Johnson was so hurt vs. Ketchel, but he suddenly recovered as soon as he got to his feet and delivered a punch that knocked him out cold, along with a bunch of his teeth.


Yea, ok. I got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you, my dude


By the way, what was the dead man to tell??? There was no indication that he was in on it. Do you think he volunteered to get his teeth punched out? You make no sense

[travestyny]

It seems pretty clear to me that the knockdown was suspect. I was looking for other examples of how Johnson reacted to overhand rights throughout the fight. I think I only saw two. One in the first round I think it was (around 1:29). Johnson leans back and turns slight to his right with the punch. Then another time at about 5:49 I believe it is. Again, Johnson shifts his weight back and turns to the right.

Look at the knockdown. Johnson lifts his LEAD leg, EARLY, before the blow even arrives and begins to move in a downward motion instead of a backwards motion...before the punch even arrives. He doesn't attempt to lean back at all. Just lifts his front leg and goes straight down. Doesn't seem his game plan would switch to attempt to duck under this punch.

Again, seems to me it's exactly as JJohnson said. He purposely went down to sell more moving film tickets. It actually makes more sense, and is the JJohnson thing to do. He was a showman out for the money. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

If any of you review the knockdown, let me know what you see. You can play it in slow motion and judge for yourselves. You can even pause it and see that he's moving straight down before the punch even connects.

[Eff Pandas]

Sh^t man who knows. These old boxing tales are just fun & entertaining to hear. I don't put THAT much weight in them, but I don't exactly think they are all bs either. Idk if I can even relate to the mindset of these mofos from a hundred years ago & how they looked at the world & boxing specifically.

[Eff Pandas]

Randomly reading more of that article I'd like to see a movie on Jack & Stanley hanging out & things that coulda went down on a night on the town like that recent Ali movie.

[travestyny]

Randomly reading more of that article I'd like to see a movie on Jack & Stanley hanging out & things that coulda went down on a night on the town like that recent Ali movie.

That would be dope! I really wish we could get a modern movie from this timeframe with the "behind the scenes" look at their lives from the day after a fight up until the next fight. Waiting for good boxing movies is like waiting for the next good boxing videogame unfortunately.