Jack Dempsey's best wins?

[HOUDINI563]

Had he beat Dempsey, Fulton may have well got his shot.

He was scheduled to fight Willard in 1918 but the bout was canceled due to WW1. The powers that be felt it was improper to hold a championship bout in the midst of war.

[HOUDINI563]

Interestingly Sam Langford known to this very day as one of boxing’s all time greatest said this of Dempsey:

“Jack Dempsey is the greatest fighter I have ever seen”

Tunney mentioned Dempsey in the same light.

Jack Sharkey said this of Dempsey:

“I never knew anyone could hit that hard. He would came at you in a little ball and when he hit you on the shoulder he broke your shoulder. When he hit you to the body it felt as if his fist came out your back. If he hit you on the hip he dislocated your hip.”

Experts of his time were pretty much universal in their praise of Dempsey as a fighter. He was considered a fighting marvel. Super quick, super aggressive, tremendous punching power plus he had boxing skill. Dempsey was no wild slugger. Such experts as Arcel, Bimstein, Stillman, Fleischer held him in very high praise.

Arcel first watched Dempsey in 1916 and had one of the keenest minds in boxing history. Probably boxing’s greatest trainer.

[travestyny]

Interestingly Sam Langford known to this very day as one of boxing’s all time greatest said this of Dempsey:

“Jack Dempsey is the greatest fighter I have ever seen”

Tunney mentioned Dempsey in the same light.

Jack Sharkey said this of Dempsey:

“I never knew anyone could hit that hard. He would came at you in a little ball and when he hit you on the shoulder he broke your shoulder. When he hit you to the body it felt as if his fist came out your back. If he hit you on the hip he dislocated your hip.”

Experts of his time were pretty much universal in their praise of Dempsey as a fighter. He was considered a fighting marvel. Super quick, super aggressive, tremendous punching power plus he had boxing skill. Dempsey was no wild slugger. Such experts as Arcel, Bimstein, Stillman, Fleischer held him in very high praise.

Arcel first watched Dempsey in 1916 and had one of the keenest minds in boxing history. Probably boxing’s greatest trainer.

That's all fine and dandy. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Flynn said Langford was the hardest puncher he ever met. One of your favorite historians ranked JJohnson as the best heavyweight. It's just a matter of opinion.


Doesn't change that Dempsey ducked Wills, Langford, Jeannette, and used bicycle tape against Willard. It just is what it is. It need not change anyone's opinion of him, as everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But we don't have to keep pretending that it's not the reality.

[HOUDINI563]

Anyone could use bicycle tape in those days.

The saga regarding Wills has been written about countless times since the 20’s. Blame is not laid upon Dempsey for the bout not occurring. Please name all the bios that came to the conclusion that Dempsey was the cause of the bout not becoming a reality. Randy Roberts is a Professor of History. His book which is considered the best ever written concerning Dempsey does not blame Dempsey for the bout not occurring.

You equating Dempsey choosing a “sure payday” by accepting a bout with Tunney vs the possibility that no bout would occur if he tried once again to face Wills as a “duck” is historically incorrect. There is a reason no black fighter fought for the heavyweight championship from Johnson to Louis. That reason was not Jack Dempsey. Dempsey was in great need of a big payday at that time.

Dempsey would not fight Jeanette in a well known set up. This has been written about many times since it occurred and it’s always termed a deception. It would be akin to Ali agreeing to fight an exhibition and Earnie Shavers is instead across the ring. Of course the bout would not occur.

[travestyny]

Anyone could use bicycle tape in those days.

Sure, but it wasn't completely on the up and up if it was considered a "trick of the trade." Willard specifically asked that no funny business be done with the wraps. Dempsey had other ideas I suppose.

The saga regarding Wills has been written about countless times since the 20’s. Blame is not laid upon Dempsey for the bout not occurring. Please name all the bios that came to the conclusion that Dempsey was the cause of the bout not becoming a reality. Randy Roberts is a Professor of History. His book which is considered the best ever written concerning Dempsey does not blame Dempsey for the bout not occurring.

You equating Dempsey choosing a “sure payday” by accepting a bout with Tunney vs the possibility that no bout would occur if he tried once again to face Wills as a “duck” is historically incorrect. There is a reason no black fighter fought for the heavyweight championship from Johnson to Louis. That reason was not Jack Dempsey. Dempsey was in great need of a big payday at that time.

I literally don't know whom else you can blame for Dempsey breaking a valid contract to fight.

This falls short of the mark when you realize that the contract for the Wills fight stipulated that Dempsey could keep the initial $300,000 if for any reason the fight didn't come off.

And the Wills contract was worth more money than the Tunney fight.

Dempsey would not fight Jeanette in a well known set up. This has been written about many times since it occurred and it’s always termed a deception. It would be akin to Ali agreeing to fight an exhibition and Earnie Shavers is instead across the ring. Of course the bout would not occur.

But the only reason he refused to fight was because Jeannette was black. It wasn't because he was too good....or was it? He claimed he would fight ANY (white) man, then claimed he would fight any TWO white men, before backing down from that. Sounds to me like he would have fought White Jesus, and White Jesus' twin. But not old Joe.

So it would be more like Ali saying he will fight ANY man, then when Shavers shows up, saying..."But not you, Earnie."

It just is what it is.

[HOUDINI563]

Please name all the bios that concur with your conclusions.

We have 90 years of these events being written about in detail. Dempsey is not blamed for the Wills bout not coming off.

Dempsey is not blamed for not accepting a set up opponent.

The use of bicycle tape was well known. Anyone could use it. It’s use tended to hurt the knuckles of those who used it so one reason it was not used widespread.

[travestyny]

Please name all the bios that concur with your conclusions.

We have 90 years of these events being written about in detail. Dempsey is not blamed for the Wills bout not coming off.

I don't need the opinion of a bio. I have a court case that concurs with my conclusion. One that specifically says Dempsey broke the contract. What's more compelling than a US court?

If you want an author that agrees with this conclusion, I could easily post Klompton's opinion on the matter. This is biographer Steve Compton, for the record.

Dont paint my quote as misinformation. If anyone is misinformed its you. Refute anything I said with actual facts. You cant. Its a plain and simple fact that Jack Dempsey actively avoided Wills. Period. You can pretend his motivations were this or that but when he states he'd meet the winner of Fulton-Wills and then signs to fight the ill, comebacking Billy Miske the day after Wills knocks out Fulton and crushes three of his ribs in the process dont tell me he was fighting the best he could. When he then fights Bill Brennan, who had failed to beat Greb or Miske in six consecutive fights the previous year and had faced no threatening competition since then and who also had, not coincidentally, been stopped by Dempsey two years earlier, it was a step back not forward. Does anyone doubt that the six foot two inch 220lb Wills wouldnt have crushed the 168lb overrated Carpentier? After Carpentier was the aforementioned fake contract used to keep Dempsey from being stripped (the first of two times they used that ruse). Then he sits out for two years and faced Tommy Gibbons. Why? There were two eliminations held in 1922 for Dempsey: The first was Harry Wills-Kid Norfolk. Wills knocked Norfolk out in 2 rounds. Norfolk was Brennan's chief sparring partner for Dempsey and the press said he handled Brennan easier than Dempsey (who struggled mightily with Brennan). They advised Dempsey to steer clear of Norfolk. Wills smashed him easily. Like a bug. The other elimination was Greb-Gibbons. Greb dominated Gibbons and beat him easily. The press were unanimous that Greb had exposed Gibbons as poor challenger for Dempsey. So of the top two contenders, one white and one black. Did Dempsey choose either? No. So Tommy Gibbons got his title shot by losing his elimination bout. Sound like a champion looking for the toughest fights? Next Dempsey fought Firpo. Firpo was very vocal about the fact that he didnt think he was ready for Dempsey. That he wanted more time. He stated that Wills should get first shot. Understanding that the opportunity and such a payday may never come again he took the shot. He went life and death with Dempsey dropping him three times, once knocking him out of the ring, before being stopped in the second. Dempsey didnt fight again for three years and never again defended his title successfully. Sorry, but Dempsey wasnt the fearless mankiller he is painted as his legend. He was a media hyped, protected fighter who people built a myth around and realized that the revenue he generated was so great that he had to be kept from people who would threaten that. Sorry but thats not sports. Thats professional wrestling. Go back and look at his run up to the title and see how the various fights that were suspected to be fixed at the time of his in order to build his reputation. Go back and examine his opponents and you will see he wasnt that impressive. He wasnt going anywhere near Wills and Kearns, who had briefly managed Wills years earlier and knew exactly what he was capable of wasnt going to let him either. Had they really been that confident that Dempsey would defeat Wills they would have signed on the dotted line, knocked him out quick and easy like his deluded fans think he would have, and in one fell swoop they would have gained the biggest payday of Dempsey's career by far, put to bed the myth of Wills, and upheld the supposed honor of the white race in the supposed racist America of the day. Nobody would have ever said another word about it. But they knew that beating Wills wasnt a given and they also knew better than you or I that Wills had massive support among both whites and blacks and that racism was just one excuse to pluck from the multitude they constantly came up with for not defending against Dempsey's top challenger.

Dempsey is not blamed for not accepting a set up opponent.

He's not? Again, who is to blame then? It was his own words that he would fight ANY man. I know what the word any means. He would have fought Hercules. Just not Joe Jeannette. Am I right about that or not?

The use of bicycle tape was well known. Anyone could use it. It’s use tended to hurt the knuckles of those who used it so one reason it was not used widespread.

I don't understand why that's important. Again, Willard asked that nothing funny be done with the wraps...only soft gauze with just enough tape to keep it in place. There are various testaments of the damage bicycle tape does when used in boxing.

Your previous stance had always been that he didn't use bicycle tape. Now you are pivoting to no harm no foul. Again, it is what it is.

[ShoulderRoll]

Interestingly Sam Langford known to this very day as one of boxing’s all time greatest said this of Dempsey:

“Jack Dempsey is the greatest fighter I have ever seen”

Tunney mentioned Dempsey in the same light.

Jack Sharkey said this of Dempsey:

“I never knew anyone could hit that hard. He would came at you in a little ball and when he hit you on the shoulder he broke your shoulder. When he hit you to the body it felt as if his fist came out your back. If he hit you on the hip he dislocated your hip.”

Experts of his time were pretty much universal in their praise of Dempsey as a fighter. He was considered a fighting marvel. Super quick, super aggressive, tremendous punching power plus he had boxing skill. Dempsey was no wild slugger. Such experts as Arcel, Bimstein, Stillman, Fleischer held him in very high praise.

Arcel first watched Dempsey in 1916 and had one of the keenest minds in boxing history. Probably boxing’s greatest trainer.

I happen to think highly of Dempsey's skills myself.

But none of what you typed gives him a good resume.

[QueensburyRules]

I happen to think highly of Dempsey's skills myself.

But none of what you typed gives him a good resume.

- -Teensy a modern day Rainman can copy and paste the raging blizzard of failed events of that era, yet most notably avoided the first Wills fight proposal by RedSox owner Harry Frazee offering a 300k purse to hold the fight in the RedSox park.

Fight never happened because of events unrelated to Dempsey or Wills actions, but that set off that blizzard freezing everything in it's path.

When Spring finally came and Dempsey had reconciled with Rickard after a 3 yr absence, perhaps boxings first eliminator was proposed with winner getting Dempsey, but Wills turned down the Tunney fight for Sharkey and the rest history, but history by definition has context.

Teensy has none.

[travestyny]

- -Teensy a modern day Rainman can copy and paste the raging blizzard of failed events of that era, yet most notably avoided the first Wills fight proposal by RedSox owner Harry Frazee offering a 300k purse to hold the fight in the RedSox park.

Fight never happened because of events unrelated to Dempsey or Wills actions, but that set off that blizzard freezing everything in it's path.

When Spring finally came and Dempsey had reconciled with Rickard after a 3 yr absence, perhaps boxings first eliminator was proposed with winner getting Dempsey, but Wills turned down the Tunney fight for Sharkey and the rest history, but history by definition has context.

Teensy has none.

Liar. Willy Pep already proved you wrong about this, didn't he? Your dates were all messed up.


You came back and said the offer was in 2020

- -Where U minder at?

Frazee offer in March 2020.

As for first eliminator, give me a break. Refer to Klompton's quotation about the eliminators that Dempsey ignored when Wills was the winner. Wills was the #1 contender for something like 7 damn years. Dempsey eliminated him by ducking him all those years.

Klompton wasn't wrong:

Harry Wills knocked out Kid Norfolk tonight at the start of the second round of what was considered an elimination contest for a crack at Jack Dempsey.

Owned again. Stop pulling shlt from your ears, grandpa.